The self-parody of the “Christian” Left

Welcome visitors!  Please start with this post, as it has foundational explanations of where the “Christian” Left goes wrong.  You see, the Left adheres to Leopard Theology (aka Dalmatian Theology), where people claim that the Bible is only inspired in spots and that they are inspired to spot the spots.  Then there is Advanced Leopard Theology, where God is also changing spots and adding and removing spots, and, oddly enough, He is only telling theological Leftists and “Progressives.”  If you just stop and think about it for a minute it is obvious that they are just making a god in their own image, but they are so steeped in their false theology and so obedient to the “god” of this world (Satan) that they can’t see it.  Pray that God will take the scales from their eyes as they are busy abusing scripture to their ends!

And don’t miss the comment thread.  It is epic, especially when Charles wraps himself in knots lying. Though I do thank him for the traffic and for exposing the Left and educating sincere seekers!

The “Christian” Left Facebook page is so open minded that they can’t handle alternate views being posted there, even though I gladly let false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie and others post here.  Not surprising!  Just another cowardly “Christian” Left echo chamber.

Update:  Good news!  The Facebook site published a link to this page.  I hope you all read the comments section here (and there!).  I’ve let many comments through from the Leftists who posted them.  Too bad they are too cowardly to let me post on their page.  Maybe they’ll relent!  I’d love to debate them on their faulty theology.

They covet 24×7, begging Caesar to take from the “greedy” people by force to “give” to counterproductive Leftist causes. They blather about the “least of these” but are radical pro-abortion extremists, fully supporting the Left’s dream of increasing abortions via taxpayer-funding.  They deny the Holy Spirit’s work in the Bible and claim that the human authors and the early church were blasphemous liars.  They proudly deny the deity of Christ.  They encourage people to commit suicide (just file the right paperwork, OK!). They promote LGBTQX behaviors, and have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. They deny that Jesus is the only way to salvation, even though the Bible teaches that over 100 times.  They claim to be tolerant and loving but offer a series of mean-spirited personal attacks at anyone who dares disagree with them.  And so much more.

1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

Side question for the race- and gender-baiters: Have you posted celebratory comments about Mia Love, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Joni Ernst, etc.?  If not, why not?  Do you hate minorities and women?

Update 2: One of Chuck’s buddies said that I was guilty of attacking his wife and kids online.  The truth that Chuck didn’t share (surprise!) and hoped I wouldn’t disclose was that I was merely referring to things that Chuck wrote about his wife and kids.  From at least the age of 6 he has taken them to gay pride parades and put photos online.  So I wasn’t attacking his kids (I feel sorry for them), I was critiquing him for being such a terrible father.  And he joked online that his wife was an atheist, which I found odd.  Seems like he’d want her to repent and believe and avoid Hell.  Oh, wait, he’s a fake Christian and doesn’t believe we need to trust in Jesus to be saved.  But that does say a lot about his evangelistic skills.  He can’t even convert his wife to the “Christian” Left.

Update 3: They linked to me again!  And called me a false teacher and called themselves “Christian Left scripture warriors!”  Meditate on the irony, folks, and read the comment section to see how scriptural their arguments are.

They are still too gutless to let me comment there, but I can see how embarrassing it is when real believers annihilate their anti-Christian sound bites.  If people follow the commenting guidelines they are welcome to comment here.  Just read some of their petty and hypocritical comment threads here or there.  These comments from a believer about the “Christian” Left site were not surprising:

On the Christian left site all you guys do is make fun of anything Christian. You delete bible verses that are related to that topic but keep the stuff where people are cursing you and calling you a troll. You guys don’t want anybody to know the truth of the bible that is why you delete it. You are so envious and ate up with jealousy over people with money. You are leading your followers down a dangerous path the narrow path. I pray that you open your eyes to the truth before it’s too late.

I just read on the Christian left site and this poor women likes them even though she has never read the bible. That is why they don’t let a Christian comment on there or use verses out of bible because they know it might touch their heart. This woman needs to hear the gospel and unfortunately they are the only “bible” she sees.

Yes, they hate it when you quote the Bible in context.  It is Satanic.  2 Corinthians 11:13–15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

And they are still whining about the election and using their pathetic race-baiting and gender-baiting baiting. They are already attacking the women who won as “extremists.”  Seems kinda misogynistic.  One commenter posted a video making fun of Joni Ernst’s laugh that had 6 “likes” in half an hour.  Stay classy, Leftists!

And they are hypocritical as well (i.e., pro-abortionists calling other people extreme?!)  I hope they keep it up through 2016 and beyond!

gop

Chuck and the “Christian” Left deliberately withhold the Gospel from people.

Chuck Currie: “I would argue that it inappropriate and deeply offensive for Christians to attempt to convert Jews or to misuse the Hebrew Scriptures and claim them as Christian writings.”

Yeah, because Jesus and the early church never took the Good News to the Jewish people, right?  Chuck is just channeling Satan there.

Their site quotes Jesus telling the people to be like the Good Samaritan, as if what the guy really did was to leave the injured man and go beg Caesar to force someone else to help him!

The comment thread here has been illuminating.  Page after page of people briefly leaving their echo chamber of empty sound bites.  Several used the shrimp / shellfish argument but had obviously never studied the passages or heard the counter-arguments.  When I shared them, they immediately changed the subject.  Sad, but not surprising.

—–

Radical pro-abortionist and false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie of the UCC (Unitarians Counterfeiting Christ) posts to a Facebook site called The Christian Left along with some other false teachers like Mark Sandlin.  I left some comments there this morning, and of course they went into full pants-wetting mode when they saw them and deleted them all.  I knew that would happen but had some fun in the mean time.

I am not making this up: One of the “Christian” Left commenters told me to take my Bible verses and shove them up my ass.  Yep, that’s the “Christian” Left for you!  That is exactly how they feel about the word of God.

You almost feel sorry for them.  Even when Obama won I wouldn’t give up hope.  But when politicians are your gods then of course that would send Leftists into depression.

—–

I’m pasting this from the comments section.   Too good not to share.  In response to Charles I wrote:

Never heard of you or Smith, but I’ve written about Sandlin some and Currie many times. Chuck and I have a special relationship, because I know he’s a liar and he knows I know he’s a liar. He deleted a comment of mine once on his blog then claimed I said things that I hadn’t. I challenged him to provide the evidence but he never did. Because he’s a liar.

We don’t worship politicians. We expect them not to make laws that crush the least of these.

Wow, you broke the hypocrisy meter. Seriously, you are like Chuck, reflexively quoting Matthew 25 but being completely blinded to it. These are the “least of these,” and you approve of their literal destruction!

I think I’ll do a separate blog post on that line alone.

YOU and your kind are the false teachers buddy! Be sure and say your prayers to Mammon tonight because that’s who you worship. Then read about yourself in Rev 17 and 18!

Thanks for the laughs! I didn’t realize you knew how much money I gave away and where I spend my time. Did Obama’s IRS tell you that?

—–

Some additional thoughts: Jesus said to help the poor with YOUR money.  He didn’t say to petition Caesar to take from neighbor A by force to give — oops, I mean redistribute — to neighbor B and to call it generosity on your part.  That’s one of the foundational errors the Left makes.

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291 thoughts on “The self-parody of the “Christian” Left”

  1. I just posted this:

    “Everything I’ve seen on this site has nothing to do with real Christianity. I find socialism, bigotry, anti-Christian teachings, support for unlawful acts, etc, etc Using Christ’s name here is blasphemy.”

    How long do you think it will be before it gets deleted?

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      1. Well, aren’t you the shining example of Christian Faith? Amazing that you can spew your hatred of others, but can’t seem to go by your own beliefs as you claim. Shouldn’t you reach your hand out and show people the way to behave online? By the way I am baptist.. but thanks for assuming the worst of me also before you reply.

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      2. Hi “LOL,”

        Thanks for coming by with your judgmental attitude. Exposing false teachers is a moral virtue. Jesus did it all the time! If you can demonstrate with the Bible where I’m acting in contradiction to my beliefs then please do so. Otherwise, save your keystrokes with petty personal attacks.

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      3. “Never heard of you or Smith, but I’ve written about Sandlin some (http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/09/05/mark-sandlin-false-teacher/ ) and Currie many times. Chuck and I have a special relationship, because I know he’s a liar and he knows I know he’s a liar. He deleted a comment of mine once on his blog then claimed I said things that I hadn’t. I challenged him to provide the evidence but he never did. Because he’s a liar.”

        You are acting in contradiction to your beliefs

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      4. “You are acting in contradiction to your beliefs”

        Perhaps you could explain that. I believe it is wrong to lie about people, and I believe it is right to warn other people about liars. So I am acting consistently.

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      5. Dueteronomy 19:15-19 “15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. 16If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; 17Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; 18And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; 19Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you”

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      6. All the believers were together and had everything in common.
        They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.
        Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
        praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
        ACTS 2:44–47

        Who is really the joke?

        Try it, I think you might even experience real inner peace and understand what Jesus meant by LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR–no exceptions.

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      7. I do love my neighbors. I donate MY money, not yours, when helping lots of them. You are welcome to do the same.

        BTW, you are anti-abortion, right? Hard to take you seriously as wanting to love your neighbor if you think this and this should be legal.

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      8. As interpreted by man, yes.
        My point is that you are accusing someone of lying without anyone else to back up your statements. Which means you can be falsely accusing him because you have provided no proof that he is lying.. Which means that you are acting in contradiction to your beliefs. That is what my point is.

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    1. I just read on the Christian left site and this poor women likes them even though she has never read the bible. That is why they don’t let a Christian comment on there or use verses out of bible because they know it might touch their heart. This woman needs to hear the gospel and unfortunately they are the only “bible” she see’s

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      1. That’s so sad, but so predictable. They are actively shielding her from the truth. That’s evil. The good news is that God is sovereign and can reach her other ways if He desires. Sometimes people see false teachers like Sandlin, Currie etc. because they tell them what their itching ears want to hear.

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      2. You really need to prove this. I visit the Christian Left several times a week. They have never been anything but gracious to most visitors. So I think this is a lie. I have lived with lies from Christians falsely so called, all my life and I am sick of it.

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      3. I have proved it. See the comments where I quote them. Go read their site right now. What ironically hypocritical and vile things they say, never realizing the planks in their eyes!

        They are gracious to “most” who say exactly what they do, which isn’t grace at all.

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    2. Socialism is “anti-Christian”?

      …You DO realize that Jesus was a blatant socialist, correct? You’d have to be blind not to realize that.

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      1. The odds of you knowing what Jesus really said are slim. Saying, “You’d have to be blind . . .” isn’t an argument. You need to offer Bible verses, in context — but only after you agree that the Bible is the word of God and that Jesus is who He claimed to be. Otherwise you are just proving my point.

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      2. …You DO realize that Jesus was a blatant socialist, correct? You’d have to be blind not to realize that.

        Really? Jesus thought the government should own everything and then give handouts to everyone, while only a few actually do the work? And those in charge just happen to be wealthy? Jesus taught to petition the government to take money away from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don’t work? Jesus said to let the government tell you what you can eat, what you can drink (or how much of either), what you must buy in the way of insurance, etc, etc, etc? I don’t think the word “socialist” means what you think it means.

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      3. eMatters: so, only people who agree with you on all points of theology and dogma can disagree with you on points of theology and dogma? I have read the Bible. Lots of times. I consider myself a believer. I try to be a good follower of Jesus. I am ashamed of the ugly attitudes and ideologies I see coming out of the Christian Right these days. I believe Jesus is the son of God. And I believe Jesus was a homeless radical who encouraged people to walk away from their jobs and families and to give all their goods to the poor. He ate too much, drank lots of wine, hung out with the ‘sinners.’ From what I read, there is little evidence that all that eating and drinking with Publicans involved preaching. Jesus was not a white, sweet, blue-eyed man who clearly decided that his followers should be Baptists and Catholics.

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      4. I’m glad you poor fools took the bait.

        “You need to offer Bible verses, in context.”

        Ooh! Gladly!

        Here’s a comprehensive list of over 100 anti-capitalist, pro-socialist verses as dictated by the God of Abraham. Cheers!

        Acts 4:34-37
        Acts 4:32
        Acts 8:20
        Acts 20:33
        Acts 20:35
        Amos 8:4-7
        Matthew 19:21-24
        Matthew 6:24
        Matthew 6:1-4
        Matthew 6:19-21
        Matthew 6:31-33
        Matthew 13:22
        Matthew 5:42
        Matthew 25:31-46
        Matthew 21:12
        Ephesians 4:28
        Luke 3:11
        Luke 6:38
        Luke 6:24
        Luke 6:20-21
        Luke 16:11
        Luke 16:13-15
        Luke 14:33
        Luke 18:25
        Luke 12:15
        Luke 16:19-31
        Luke 12:33-34
        Luke 14:12-14
        Philippians 2:4
        1 Timothy 6:7-10
        1 Timothy 5:18
        Mark 10:25
        Mark 10:21-22
        Mark 4:18-19
        Mark 12:41-44
        2 Corinthians 9:6-8
        Hebrews 13:5
        Hebrews 13:16
        1 John 2:15-17
        1 John 3:17
        Ecclesiastes 5:10
        Ecclesiastes 2:11
        James 5:1-6
        James 2:5
        Isaiah 65:11-13
        Isaiah 46:6
        Isaiah 58:10
        Isaiah 58:6-7
        Isaiah 25:4
        Exodus 22:25
        Ezekiel 7:19
        Ezekiel 22:29
        Ezekiel 16:49-50
        Romans 4:4
        Jeremiah 22:13
        Jeremiah 5:28
        Malachi 3:5
        Colossians 4:1
        2 Timothy 3:1-5
        Proverbs 28:22
        Proverbs 19:17
        Proverbs 14:21
        Proverbs 22:9
        Proverbs 29:7
        Proverbs 14:31
        Proverbs 31:9
        Proverbs 28:27
        Galatians 2:10
        Psalm 140:12
        Psalm 37:21
        Psalm 12:5
        Deuteronomy 15:7-11
        Leviticus 25:35
        Leviticus 19:9-10

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      5. Ha! I won’t quibble with your math error, I’ll just laugh at you taking things so out of context. Really, that’s the best you’ve got? You get the ejector seat after the first one.

        Acts 4 is NOT about the forced redistribution of wealth by the gov’t. It is people FREELY giving what they wanted to. More specifically, it was CHRISTIANS giving what they wanted to. You left out this part: 32 Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.

        They gave public testimony to the RESURRECTION. There was great risk in doing that. Theses were believers. They did it because they wanted to. How perverse that you use that to support socialism!

        I don’t have time to annihilate the rest of your fake Christianity, but just glancing at the list makes it obvious how badly you have to stretch things. Leftist “Christians” deny the physical resurrection, but they ignore that part of the passage. But they totally believe the part they THINK they understand about wealth redistribution! Pathetic.

        Oh, here’s another random one for fun: Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

        You think that is socialism?! If you find someone in the U.S. who was promised wages and then did the work, then we agree they should be paid. But that isn’t socialism.

        What a farce. And you call us poor fools?

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      6. I looked up a few more verses for grins. Wow, Satan has quite the imagination! Next time you play your little “70 verses” game include the actual text. Then watch people laugh.

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      7. I’m sorry, it’s not “over 100 verses”; it’s about 70. My mistake.

        I mistook it for my list of about 100 Liberal verses, which covers a much broader range of issues.

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      8. As for you, Glenn, after I submitted that Jesus was a Socialist, you replied with the following:

        “Jesus thought the government should own everything and then give handouts to everyone, while only a few actually do the work?”

        Uh, actually, that sounds like Communism. I’m talking about Socialism. You… DO realize there’s a difference between the two, correct?

        Socialism has absolutely nothing to do with the “government owning everything”. It doesn’t say “handouts” should go to “everyone”, it says that reasonable subsidies should be allocated to the poorest individualist (whom your beloved Jesus termed “the least of these”, by the way). Socialism also doesn’t mandate that only a FEW people work. That’s just a flat out stupid suggestion.

        “Jesus taught to petition the government to take money away from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don’t work?”

        No, actually. Jesus petitioned the rich folk who DON’T do hard labor/work (Matthew 19:16–30) to sell EVERYTHING they had and give it to the poor. Speaking as a man who works VERY hard and yet remains poor, I can tell you firsthand that your argument that “everyone who is poor must be lazy” is not only ignorant, but outright stupid.

        “Jesus said to let the government tell you what you can eat, what you can drink (or how much of either), what you must buy in the way of insurance, etc, etc, etc?”

        .

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      9. I deleted your profanity. Do it again and you are gone for good. I don’t have time to babysit. Complain about me deleting it and you’re also gone for good. Your call.

        No, actually. Jesus petitioned the rich folk who DON’T do hard labor/work (Matthew 19:16–30) to sell EVERYTHING they had and give it to the poor.

        Read the context: Gaining eternal life. And it wasn’t in the giving, it was in putting God first and trusting Jesus with everything. You socialists twist that to say Jesus meant to take his money by force to redistribute. I can’t help but notice that Jesus didn’t do that.

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      10. “Christian”

        Communism is just a version of socialism. Most of Europe, Canada, and even much of the USA government ideology and practice is socialism.

        Jesus said for YOU personally to provide for the orphan and the widows, etc, rather than have the government steal my money and give it to someone. And who gets to decide what poverty is? The poor in the USA are wealthy compared to the poor in many countries. Most of the “poor” in the USA are that way because they have sucked on the government’s teat for generations.

        I never suggest socialism MANDATED that only a few work. Thanks for practicing eisegesis with my comments. I said that’s what happens. Because when you steal from the worker to give it to the non-worker, the worker no long sees a point in working.

        Nice abuse of Matthew 16-30. Try reading that again. It was ONE rich person who was trying to justify himself as to how righteous he was, so Jesus tested his heart as to what he was willing to give up.

        Again, I never said everyone who is poor must be lazy. Try sticking to what I actually say versus what you want me to have said. I spent many years in poverty and it wasn’t for lack of working hard.

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    3. OH THEY WILL KNOW WE ARE CHRISTIANS, BY OUR INFIGHTING AND DIVISIVENESS, AND HATRED TOWARDS THE POOR, THE SICK, AND THOSE WHO DON’T SHARE THAT HATRED.

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      1. Hi Keith,

        Thanks for leaving your Facebook link so I could research and see what a fraud you are. So covetous! Demanding others to pay for your birth control. Lamenting abortion bans at 20 week! And so much more.

        We love the poor and want to help them. You want to kill them at any stage of development.

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      1. You foolish hypocrite. Now you are calling me a liar — and with no proof! You are another self-parody.

        Chuck maliciously libeled me. I know it. He knows it. He knows I know it. I know that he knows that I know it. I couldn’t care less of another person from the “Christian” Left comes by with a hypocritical accusation against me about him.

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      2. So far from a new writer’s perspective, this looks like “neener neener neener” children’s name calling. Since I am new here, how about you stop claiming vague “this and that happened” and reference a specific lie, by a specific person, so we can see if it was a lie or maybe just hurt your feelings?

        “You foolish hypocrite. Now you are calling me a liar — and with no proof! You are another self-parody.

        Chuck maliciously libeled me. I know it. He knows it. He knows I know it. I know that he knows that I know it. I couldn’t care less of another person from the “Christian” Left comes by with a hypocritical accusation against me about him.”

        I, FYI am not calling you a liar. I’m calling you something else entirely.

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      3. Chuck being a liar is a tertiary issue. His being a false teacher (along with Sandlin and other commenters there) is the primary issue. I could care less personally that he lied about me. I’m used to all sorts of attacks from non-Christians. His false teachings tell you all you need to know. You don’t have to have personal experience with his deceptions like I did. He denies the deity of Jesus, his exclusivity for salvation, the Trinity, the authority of the Bible, and more — just like other non-Christians! The difference is that he masquerades as one. 2 Corinthians 11:13–15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

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      4. I said: “I am new here, how about you stop claiming vague “this and that happened” and reference a specific lie, by a specific person, ” and I see you cannot, or will not do it. (I am forced to suspect the former case.) You are all up in arms and so by default this guy is a “liar”. And you disagree with his theology (as he does with yours, I imagine) and that’s proof enough.

        NO, it is not.

        My complaint stands without sufficient rebuttal. By your methods this would prove me correct. See? Doesn’t work, does it?

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      5. Ha! I gave Chuck countless chances to repent, but he smugly doubled down on his lies. That’s fine, I expect that from non-Christians. It is part of their job description. If you want to be illogical, petty and mean-spirited like Chuck then you are welcome to do so. Just not at my blog! All the best.

        Oh, BTW, http://wp.me/p1wGU-3P7 The Bible couldn’t be more clear about LGBTQX behavior. Bible-believing Christians and even two out of the three types of pro-gay people* (religious or not) can see these truths:

        100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior describe it as sin in the clearest and strongest possible terms.
        100% of the verses referring to God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.
        100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).
        0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions of any kind. There are no exceptions for “committed” relationships.
        0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to LGBT couples parenting children.
        The three general types of pro-gay theology people:

        “The Bible says homosexuality is wrong but it isn’t the word of God.” (Obviously non-Christians
        “The Bible says it is wrong but God changed his mind and is only telling the theological Left.” (Only about 10 things wrong with that.)
        “The Bible is the word of God but you are just misunderstanding it” (Uh, no, not really.)

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      6. And, actually, the Bible has been misunderstood and misinterpreted constantly. That’s why the Roman Catholic Church is still re-translating the Bible itself. How do I know this? I’m Roman Catholic. They still have not accurately translated the Bible due to words and phrases having numerous meanings.

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      7. There are 95 reasons not to be Catholic. Works won’t get you in. You need to trust in the real Jesus, forget Mariolotry, forget indulgences, forget the papacy, forget praying to the dead and more.

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      8. No one disputed that it has been misunderstood. That’s my primary point against the “Christian” Left! But we have extremely accurate translations.

        And you are obviously not much of a catholic if you are so pro-LGBTQX. At least you and I agree that the Catholic church is wrong about being infalliable!

        That’s all for you.

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      9. The Bible was written in Hebrew, Aramaic (Jesus’ local dialect) and a bit in Latin and Greek. Unless you can read all of those yourself, you are relying upon interpreters. Human interpreters.

        If you favor the King James version (as I do) for its lovely poetic language, then you are accepting a work commissioned by a highly political King in an era where the loser often got beheaded. (Like his grandson King Charles I.) There was a religious war going on in England at the time, with many dead on each side. While I am not saying being in fear for his life might sway an interpreter to interpret a difficult passage the way the King wanted… well they were also human – and he paid them.

        So unless you are a Biblical linguist, in fact you do not actually have the exact Word of God in hand. This is a great sadness, which is why dedicated translators and scholars and linguists are STILL working on this vital puzzle to this very day. My personal solution is to own one of every English translation I can afford and read those I cannot, online. This is why I subscribe to a Biblical Linguist’s professional blog. I am learning German and may start reading German versions as well. (I’m too old to take on new alphabets, though… so no Hebrew or Greek.)

        Sad fact is, if you hear a new version of a familiar verse, it may NOT be a lie. It may be a truth rediscovered. This is why a good Christian needs to be a bit of a scholar.
        If any of you know more than one language, you know translation is often in part a matter of interpreting the surrounding lines and knowing the issues of its day. Besides, it’s kind of fun knowing why there would be anyone selling birds in a Temple… or how much wine was considered, by Jewish Society of a time when water was often undrinkable, as “too much”.

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      10. Even atheist textual critics concede that we know what the originals said for key doctrines and 99% of all verses. They’ll even argue strenuously for their preferred interpretation.

        The essentials – most or all denied by the “Christian” Left, btw – are spectacularly clear.

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  2. Um, Rev. Currie is a friend of mine and a frequent contributor to The Christian Left but he doesn’t “run it. I do, along with Rev. Mark Sandlin, Roger Smith, and our admin team. Rev. Currie is one of the most decent people I have ever known. He’s probably done more to help the least of these in Portland than you have ever dreamed of doing. We don’t worship politicians. We expect them not to make laws that crush the least of these. YOU and your kind are the false teachers buddy! Be sure and say your prayers to Mammon tonight because that’s who you worship. Then read about yourself in Rev 17 and 18!

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    1. Hi Charles,

      Never heard of you or Smith, but I’ve written about Sandlin some (http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/09/05/mark-sandlin-false-teacher/ ) and Currie many times. Chuck and I have a special relationship, because I know he’s a liar and he knows I know he’s a liar. He deleted a comment of mine once on his blog then claimed I said things that I hadn’t. I challenged him to provide the evidence but he never did. Because he’s a liar.

      We don’t worship politicians. We expect them not to make laws that crush the least of these.

      Wow, you broke the hypocrisy meter. Seriously, you are like Chuck, reflexively quoting Matthew 25 but being completely blinded to it. These are the “least of these,” and you approve of their literal destruction! http://tinyurl.com/yzjq4lv http://www.advocatesoflife.com/graphicabortionimages.htm

      I think I’ll do a separate blog post on that line alone.

      YOU and your kind are the false teachers buddy! Be sure and say your prayers to Mammon tonight because that’s who you worship. Then read about yourself in Rev 17 and 18!

      Thanks for the laughs! I didn’t realize you knew how much money I gave away and where I spend my time. Did Obama’s IRS tell you that?

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      1. Speaking as a Leftist Christian,

        Maybe, eMatters, you need to take a second to understand that the “least of these” could very well refer to both aborted children AND the poor?

        Could you at least consider that for a second?

        Your Republican gods actively enforce laws which belittle and crush the poorest people in this country.

        I know this on a personal basis: I work VERY hard in a warehouse for a wage that doesn’t even equal to the cost of living.

        So if you want to waltz around pretending that “the least of these” EXCLUSIVELY refers to aborted children, then I just don’t know what to say.

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      2. Where did I claim that the “least of these” were just the unborn? Nowhere. So be gone with your straw man and fake indignation.

        Of course it applies to more than the unborn. But it DOES apply to the unborn, the destruction of which is blessed by the Left.

        The Left is the one hurting the poor. Go visit Detroit, the Petri dish of Leftism. They had monopolies on schools, politics and unions for over half a century. Turned out swell!

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      3. Since when is it the government’s job – i.e. find it in the Constitution – to tell an employer what he must pay his employees? Why is it the Republicans’ fault if your boss doesn’t pay you what you think you deserve?

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      4. These Leftists never think to start their own businesses like so many other poor people have done. Easy? Of course not. But they make it sound like it is easy for the mean old business owners.

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    2. On the Christian left site all you guys do is make fun of anything Christian. You delete bible verses that are related to that topic but keep the stuff where people are cursing you and calling you a troll. You guys don’t want anybody to know the truth of the bible that is why you delete it. You are so envious and ate up with jealousy over people with money. You are leading your followers down a dangerous path the narrow path. I pray that you open your eyes to the truth before it’s too late.

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    3. Too bad you guys are so gutless you had to block me and delete my comments. But thanks for sending people here! I’ll gladly show where Leftist theology is anti-biblical.

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  3. Maybe you might wanna go reread the OT. God was a fan of abortion, instructing the Israelites to rip fetuses from wombs of conquered foes and kill the child of an adultress.
    BTW- since God gives all life, and it begins at conception, how do you deal with that fact that almost 50% of pregnancies end in NATURALLY OCCURING ABORTION.
    Just a thought.

    As to socialism and Christ. You might wanna reread the Gospels bc if you think its OK for kids to go hungry while the wealthy get tax cuts- you might not know Jesus at all.

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    1. Hi JB,

      Maybe you might wanna go reread the OT. God was a fan of abortion, instructing the Israelites to rip fetuses from wombs of conquered foes and kill the child of an adultress.

      Yes, I’ve read the OT many times — in context! Lots of fake Christians disagree with Jesus and claim the OT isn’t the word of God.

      Re. killing the child of the adulteress, I assume you are referring to the pro-abort abuse of Numbers 5. I encourage you to re-read your pro-abortion Bible texts. That passage doesn’t even say the woman was pregnant, yet pro-aborts use it to rationalize abortion! It shows how desperate they are — as if they actually cared about what the Book of Numbers said. See http://www.gotquestions.org/Numbers-abortion.html for more.

      BTW- since God gives all life, and it begins at conception, how do you deal with that fact that almost 50% of pregnancies end in NATURALLY OCCURING ABORTION.
      Just a thought.

      You are right, God is the author of life, and it does begin at conception (actually, fertilization, but close enough). But re. your pro-abort argument about miscarriages, I encourage you to consider these distinctions:

      A. Human being dies of natural causes (inside or outside the womb)

      B. Human being is deliberately killed by a 3rd party (inside or outside the womb)

      Miscarriages would be in category A and abortions are in category B. I think most people can see that they are significantly different.

      As to socialism and Christ. You might wanna reread the Gospels bc if you think its OK for kids to go hungry while the wealthy get tax cuts- you might not know Jesus at all.

      I’ve read the Gospels many, many times. Still haven’t found where Jesus said to petition Caesar to take from neighbor A by force to “give” — oops, I mean redistribute — to neighbor B and to call it generosity on your part. Jesus said to help the poor with YOUR money.

      Oh, and studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares

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      1. “I’ve read the Gospels many, many times. Still haven’t found where Jesus said to petition Caesar to take from neighbor A by force to “give” — oops, I mean redistribute — to neighbor B and to call it generosity on your part. Jesus said to help the poor with YOUR money.”

        Do you have a PhD in Bullshit Studies?

        You’re making an arbitrary distinction between “your” money and “their” money. Jesus never talked about “your” money versus “their” money.

        He only talked about helping the poor. Nothing more, nothing less.

        Jesus (the God of Abraham, mind you) was most ardent on one point specifically: to help the poor, and the needy, and the sick, and the imprisoned, and the down-trodden through any means possible.

        The Bible says that true religion is this: to help the poor and the widow.
        The Bible says that a certain ruler was blessed by God “because he defended the cause of the poor and the needy”.
        The Bible says that anyone who takes from the poor and gives to the rich is IMMORAL.

        That’s EXACTLY what your Republican gods do.

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      2. Ha! The verse you just misquoted about the rich young ruler says the opposite!

        And you beg the question about whether the Left’s policies actually help anyone.

        You and the other Leftist pro-abortion moral freaks pretend to love your neighbor, but you really just love yourselves.

        The rich pay the vast, vast majority of taxes. We have 40+ MILLION people on food stamps and other benefits. Don’t tell me we aren’t caring for them.

        You are like the typical spoiled 1st world person. I’ve been to 3rd world countries many times and the people I know there would love to trade places with you.

        Save your keystrokes because you are done here. I tire of your swearing, petty personal attacks and bad theology. Feel free to keep reading, though!

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  4. And yet, it is the poor who give away more money to charities in proportion to their income than the wealthy, who most likely do it for the tax breaks anyway. ..

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    1. So? Why are you coveting the wealth of others and trying to oxymoronically force them to “give?” Too bad you don’t share the real Gospel with them. That would transform their hearts and minds and make them truly generous.

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      1. eMatters, you CLEARLY didn’t understand the scriptural ramifications of Ayem’s post.

        Here’s some Biblical context for you:
        “As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. 3 “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.””

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      2. Glad you could mind-read Ayem’s note. Either way, your point is false. The widow GAVE what she wanted. No one forced her to! You are free to do the same! Just don’t ask the IRS to do it then congratulate yourself on your generosity.

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    1. Chuck has degrees, too, but he’s not a Christian. Satan is very happy with the “Christian” Left and their pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQX, pro-coveting and other God-mocking stances.

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  5. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF. STOP IT.

    Rev. Chuck Currie is NOT in charge of the Christian Left. And people like you give Christians a bad name. CHRIST WOULD NOT ACT THIS WAY.

    KNOCK IT OFF.

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    1. Thanks, I updated the post to note that false teacher just posts to the site along with other false teachers.

      Jesus would most definitely act this way, calling out wolves in sheep’s clothing!

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    2. !. Who said I was pro-choice. If you read my Facebook posts as you suggest, you would know I’m pro-life.

      The fact that you believe MassResistance when it has been proven that this organization has lied before, says it all.

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      1. MassResistance does great work in exposing the lunatic LGBTQX Left and the fake Christians who support them. Thanks for the reminder! http://www.massresistance.com/

        Here are 300 examples of the LGBTQX agenda at work — large and small — http://englishmanif.blogspot.com/2014/07/300-articles-you-have-to-read-to.html

        Also see what government recognition of “same-sex marriage” did in Massachussetts — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX55HUPFSU&feature=youtu.be

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      2. So you are anti-abortion? Do you vote Democrat? Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

        From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

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      1. It is fascinating how fake Christians will glom on to the tiniest story to discredit an entire organization. Too bad you don’t use that standard on Chuck Currie! I write about him because of his horrific anti-Christian teachings, but my personal experience just makes me that much more certain of whom he serves.

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      2. I actually vote both parties for different reasons. In other words I voted for both Democrats AND Republicans this last election. One can agree with certain platforms of each party without agreeing with all of it. I am fully pro-life which means that I am against the Democrats position on abortion AND the Republicans position on the death penalty and war. Sorry.

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      3. So you vote for neither? If this helps, abortion kills over 20,000 completely innocent human beings per week and capital punishment kills 1 (one!) murderer who survived 10+ years of appeals. If you are going to pick a lane, I’d save the 20,000 innocent.

        And you must be really upset about all the people Obama has killed.

        Oh, and you may have noticed that there are bad people in the world. It is a moral good to protect them, even if it involves just wars.

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  6. The Christian left needs our prayers. They are so mixed up and being fed a steady diet hate anyone conservative and Christian.

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      1. I hate bad theology. I love all my neighbors — including the ones in the womb! — so I pray that Leftist “Christians” have the scales come off their eyes and that the Holy Spirit makes them spiritually alive.

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      2. “Liberal Christians” is an oxymoron. Those who claim to be Christians while promoting abortion, sexual immorality of all sorts, theft (taking from those who earn money and giving it to those too lazy to earn money), and same-sex fake marriage, are just liars. You can’t claim the name of Christ while at the same time rebelling against him.

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      3. Huh? Please spell out your point if you are going to comment. All you’ve done is post a Bible verse then that cryptic comment.

        What do you mean by social justice? Abortion is the ultimate social injustice – literally killing unwanted human beings. Surely you fight that, right?

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      4. Ask yourselves exactly what is the proven positive result of denying my gay relatives a stable married life? Background:

        There is a gay strain in my family dating back at the mid 1800s and probably much further. Most of them married the opposite sex and went on to live miserable lives and therefore made their unsuspecting spouses miserable as well.

        Except for the hermaphrodite twin – he/she really didn’t have much “choice” so she hanged herself. He had grown up a “boy” like his twin so when “his” menses and breasts came in the horrified ladies of the family grabbed “him” and forced “him” into corsets and long skirts and “being ladylike” (aka having no further social freedom) so “she” took the only option left to a “freak”. I have two gay young people in the family at present. Both are in happy, loving relationships. Why deny them that?
        If you are uncircumcised, eat pork, wear mixed fibers or are male and shave, please excuse yourself from answering using Leviticus in your argument. You are as much a sinner as they, by that reasoning.
        If, OTOH, you wish to argue “it’s unnatural” – well, it’s not. Any of you who are country people and have bred livestock (or dogs) know there are a certain percentage that simply will not breed with the opposite sex. They are gay and yet a part of Nature, hence natural. They are not “sick” they don’t have “mommy issues”, they’re just gay. Why? In England, where research is less messed with by pressure groups, they looked into it and discovered that the gay members of the herd – pride – flock – pack – act as babysitters for the fertile members, without adding the pressure of more mouths to feed. Groups with gay members tend to raise a higher percentage of healthy young. Simple. Logical. Why were the old Jews so against it? Because they were surrounded and they needed to out-breed those other peoples.
        If we’re all so queer, why am I here? Well because we aren’t. This generation it’s two out of 20.

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      5. If you are uncircumcised, eat pork, wear mixed fibers or are male and shave, please excuse yourself from answering using Leviticus in your argument. You are as much a sinner as they, by that reasoning.

        The shrimp / shellfish argument is full of holes but is appealing to many because so few bother to study the passages. I address six serious problems with it in flaws of the shellfish argument. The short version: There were different Hebrew words translated as abomination. They were used differently in the individual verses and were used very differently in broader contexts. The associated sins had radically different consequences and had 100% different treatments in the New Testament. And the claim that Christians are inconsistent if they say homosexual behavior is a sin if they don’t also avoid shellfish, mixed fibers, etc. would mean that they couldn’t complain about bestiality, child sacrifice, adultery, etc.

        The longer version: http://tinyurl.com/shellfishflaws

        I have two gay young people in the family at present. Both are in happy, loving relationships. Why deny them that?

        There is no such thing as a “loving” sinful relationship. And I’m not denying them that anyway, I’m just saying “same-sex marriage” is an oxymoron and the gov’t has no good reasons to get involved in gay relationships.

        Any of you who are country people and have bred livestock (or dogs) know there are a certain percentage that simply will not breed with the opposite sex.

        Animals do all sorts of things: Eat their young, murder other members of the same species, eat their poop, hump your leg, etc. Hopefully you don’t appeal to those facts to justify all your behaviors.

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      6. Your said: “There is no such thing as a “loving” sinful relationship. And I’m not denying them that anyway, I’m just saying “same-sex marriage” is an oxymoron and the gov’t has no good reasons to get involved in gay relationships.”

        We may have a point of agreement hiding in here! Indeed, the Government has NO good reason to get involved in creation of any marriage AT ALL. It’s a religious sacrament. Get the Government’s big ham-hands OUT of it altogether. Yes, register such events for legal reasons, such as inheritance and support – after the fact. But why do we need “licenses”? Marriage should be between God and the celebrants. Let them hash out who can have what.

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    1. Ha! Yeah, those pale in comparison to the offered . . .

      How about actually reading things and commenting on them directly? Or you could just repeat meaningless sound bites and personal attacks like those on your FB page are doing.

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  7. If you are opposed to the “Christian Left”, then you are opposed to Jesus Christ himself. He was the ultimate liberal that you “claim” to follow yet act contrary to his every word. There “Christian Right” is neither Christian, nor is it right.
    I’ll pray for you.

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    1. If you agree with Currie, Sandlin, etc. then you are praying to a false god. If you disagree with them, then no prayers are necessary, because you and I would be on the same side!

      Jesus was not pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQX, pro-coveting, etc. like the Left is.

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    1. Do you think the Bible is the word of God and that the originals turned out exactly as the Holy Spirit and the human authors wanted them to? If so, you don’t really love the Christian Left. If no, I’m not sure why you study something you think is full of blasphemous lies — http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/should-you-believe-the-authors-of-the-bible-or-the-christians-who-claim-the-writers-were-blasphemous-pathological-liars/?preview=true&preview_id=24275&preview_nonce=41ee43aaa0&post_format=standard

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  8. Hey Neil, we here you actually bring Rev. Currie’s family and kids in to your debate with him. His minor children for God’s sake! You mention them in your blogs. Big tough guy you are. Picking on people’s families. You make me sick to my stomach. You stop at nothing. Your theology is based on “The law of the jungle,” “every man for himself,” “survival of the strongest,” “survival of the fittest,” “kill or be killed,” “dog eat dog,” and “eat or be eaten.” It’s as old as the hills and it comes from the pit of Hell. Actually it’s Satanism pure and simple. Maybe you and your buddy Paul Ryan, who is a big fan of Ayn Rand, can start a Satanic Sunday School class together. Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, had this to say about Rand: “I give people Ayn Rand with trappings.” Ryan says he’s not a fan of Objectivism, but he loves Rand’s books and he formed his views of economics from reading them. Never mind that her blasphemous books drip with Objectivism on every page. You and your flock have been deluded by Satan himself! 1 Timothy 4:1-2 describes you well, but you are so delusional and blind you can’t see it. Let that one through for your readers.

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      1. Charles, the only time I’ve seen Neil mention Currie’s family is to point out how Currie takes his children to watch parades of perversion. Neil is actually exposing Currie’s child abuse.

        What you claim as Neil’s theology (survival of the fittest, etc) is actually the theology of the LEFT; Darwinism, evolutionism is your God.

        Lots of rhetoric you’ve spewed but you’ve actually done nothing but make assertions rather than compare any particular teachings of Neil’s with Scripture. Meanwhile, Neil consistently points out – by use of Scripture – where Currie and his ilk (e.g. you) are heretics, liars, and tools of Satan,

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    1. Hey Neil, we here you actually bring Rev. Currie’s family and kids in to your debate with him. His minor children for God’s sake! You mention them in your blogs. Big tough guy you are. Picking on people’s families. You make me sick to my stomach. You stop at nothing.

      I figured Chuck would tell you that, but not the whole story. Yes, he has minor children and he takes them to gay pride parades! That’s what is sick. He uses them as props to brag about how tolerant he is. This is the kind of thing you find there – http://americansfortruth.com/2014/07/31/san-francisco-after-the-nudity-ban-aftah-exposes-nudity-filled-up-your-alley-street-fair/ (I’m not sure what Chuck’s parade was like, but does it matter?!).

      And I mentioned once how HE noted that he has an atheist wife. Seems odd for a pastor. Can’t even convince his own wife to convert. (I assume he became a [fake] Christian after marrying her, though I doubt the unequally yoked thing would matter to him).

      So yes, I commented on things that HE brought up about his family in PUBLIC. If he didn’t tell you that then he was being disingenuous. I feel sorry for the rest of his family. They deserve better.

      Your theology is based on “The law of the jungle,” “every man for himself,” “survival of the strongest,” “survival of the fittest,” “kill or be killed,” “dog eat dog,” and “eat or be eaten.”

      No, you’d get your Darwinian philosophy from Chuck, who did at least one sermon extolling the virtues of Charles Darwin. Apparently that was much more important than talking about Jesus!

      It’s as old as the hills and it comes from the pit of Hell. Actually it’s Satanism pure and simple.

      Wait — you believe in the biblical truths of a literal Hell and Satan? Maybe there is hope for you!

      Maybe you and your buddy Paul Ryan, who is a big fan of Ayn Rand, can start a Satanic Sunday School class together.

      I’m pretty sure he’s Catholic, so we don’t align theologically.

      And Rand was pro-abortion, just like Chuck, so using your pathetic guilt-by-association fallacy won’t work well here. BTW, Rand brilliantly noted the problem of Leftism, but came up with the wrong solution because she didn’t trust in the real God (kinda like you guys!).

      Never mind that her blasphemous books drip with Objectivism on every page.

      She was an atheist. What did you expect? My bigger issue is with fakes like Chuck and Mark parading as Christians while denying Jesus’ divinity, exclusivity for salvation, and more. Rand was at least honest about her views. And again, she was right on the problems of Leftism. But her rebellion against God clouded her judgment and made her pro-abortion, just like you guys.

      You and your flock have been deluded by Satan himself! 1 Timothy 4:1-2 describes you well, but you are so delusional and blind you can’t see it. Let that one through for your readers.

      Wow, you sure are judgmental and condemning for a Leftist! Thanks for taking off the sheep’s clothing and not pretending.

      Again, glad you believe the truth that Satan is real. Maybe you can straighten Chuck out on that.

      P.S. Still marveling over the morbid irony of you accusing me of destroying the least of these while you guys are the pro-aborts! Seems kinda racist to me that you guys are so strongly in favor of policies that kill blacks at a rate three times that of whites.

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      1. “No, you’d get your Darwinian philosophy from Chuck, who did at least one sermon extolling the virtues of Charles Darwin. Apparently that was much more important than talking about Jesus!” – eMatters

        OK, first of all, you’re totally confusing biological Darwinism with Social Darwinism.

        Every rational, critical thinker on this planet has basically accepted biological Darwinism as an objective scientific fact; interestingly enough, the book of Genesis itself actually contains a scientifically accurate timeline of evolution as we know it from science (I’d be glad to expand on this point upon request).

        What you willfully failed to understand about Charles’ point is this: your political cult’s economic views (screw the poor, let the rich thrive) are unforgiving, anti-scriptural, pathetic examples of SOCIAL DARWINISM.

        So if anyone’s being a hypocrite here, it’s you. First, you decry the “evils” of biological Darwinism, only to turn tail and embrace social Darwinism! You’re nothing more than an ignorant, foolish tool.

        OH, and might I remind you: the Abrahamic God (Jesus, in case you didn’t pick up on that) was most definitely and unarguably an economic leftist, if not an outright Socialist.

        I have over 100 biblical verses which prove this beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt. I’d be more than happy to toss them your way, if you are so inclined to receive them.

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      2. OK, first of all, you’re totally confusing biological Darwinism with Social Darwinism.

        Ha! If Darwinism is true then both are true. And the Nazis, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and many in the U.S. believed both.

        Every rational, critical thinker on this planet has basically accepted biological Darwinism as an objective scientific fact; interestingly enough, the book of Genesis itself actually contains a scientifically accurate timeline of evolution as we know it from science (I’d be glad to expand on this point upon request).

        Silly fallacies (“anyone who agrees with me is a rational, critical thinker and everyone else is not”) are a waste of time.

        What you willfully failed to understand about Charles’ point is this: your political cult’s economic views (screw the poor, let the rich thrive) are unforgiving, anti-scriptural, pathetic examples of SOCIAL DARWINISM.

        Straw man argument & ad hominem. Double fallacy! Studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. They just don’t lobby Caesar to “give” your money and count it as a good deed on their part. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares

        So if anyone’s being a hypocrite here, it’s you. First, you decry the “evils” of biological Darwinism, only to turn tail and embrace social Darwinism! You’re nothing more than an ignorant, foolish tool.

        Gosh, maybe if you use some more fallacies and call more names I’ll believe you.

        If you want 100 verses, start with those saying Jesus is the only way to salvation, then work from there.

        Oh, and let me know if you find the one where He says to beg Caesar to take from neighbor A by force to give — oops, I mean redistribute — to neighbor B and to call it generosity on your part.

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    2. 1 Tim. 4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,

      Ha! So you are saying that the following are demonic teachings?

      Jesus is fully human and fully divine
      Jesus is the only way to salvation (“only” 100+ passages on that)
      The Bible is, as claimed, the word of God
      We are all sinners in need of a Savior.
      We should never deliberately take innocent human lives.
      We should help the weak
      Love your neighbor, wherever they are (including the womb!)
      Warn people of false teachers
      Etc.

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      1. I said v. 1-2. There you go twisting things again. Your kind is good at that. Your political Gods have managed to lead the flock away from Jesus over abortion and gay marriage. The rest of their platform is Satanic. I have moderated The Christian Left Facebook page for 5 years, along with my fellow co-founders and admin team. I’ve debated with people like you for thousands of hours, including on the topics of abortion and gay marriage. If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that you are brainwashed and can’t be reasoned with under any circumstances. Call that a cop-out if you want. Think what you want. The Republican platform is demonic. At least for once in your life you’ve heard the truth. Bye now.

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      2. I said v. 1-2. There you go twisting things again.

        And that’s exactly what I pasted! I copied and pasted your specific reference (“1 Timothy 4:1-2”) to my Bible software then pasted the results. Either you cited the wrong verse or you are just confused. Either way, you should apologize for accusing me of twisting things.

        Your political Gods have managed to lead the flock away from Jesus over abortion and gay marriage.

        No, you are the ones who pushed for abortion and fake gay marriage. Churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/churchgoers-who-support-same-sex-marriage-are-identical-to-the-world/

        1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

        The rest of their platform is Satanic.

        No, child sacrifice is Satanic.

        I have moderated The Christian Left Facebook page for 5 years, along with my fellow co-founders and admin team. I’ve debated with people like you for thousands of hours, including on the topics of abortion and gay marriage.

        So you are Satan’s Cabana Boy. Duly noted.

        If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that you are brainwashed and can’t be reasoned with under any circumstances. Call that a cop-out if you want.

        Yes! A cop-out! Don’t confuse your perseverance of executing Satan’s agenda with any real good. Using your foolish logic, I could say that I’ve been blogging since 2006 and that you are brain-washed for not changing your mind.

        But I don’t say that, as it is a stupid argument. I stick to facts and logic. I use the Bible, in context.

        Think what you want. The Republican platform is demonic. At least for once in your life you’ve heard the truth. Bye now.

        Thanks for the concession speech!

        This is the demonic platform: Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

        From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

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  9. It seems that the Christian Left frightens you. It also seems that you are afraid that they might be correct in their assumptions that we are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus and do radical liberal things like feed the poor, take care of the sick, shelter the homeless, not persecute the gay person, not hate the foreigner. Don’t worry, I’ll pray for you and that God frees your soul from the hate and judgment you suffer.

    Why don’t you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and let the light of His saving grace shine through you and allow your to repent your hateful ways and reform your soul?

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    1. It seems that the Christian Left frightens you.

      Uh, yeah, that’s why I go to their sites and point out their faulty theology. But they banned me without explanation. Who is scared of whom? Please spare me your petty personal attacks.

      It also seems that you are afraid that they might be correct in their assumptions that we are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus

      Oh, we agree on that, the problem is that you think Jesus is pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQX, etc.Churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/churchgoers-who-support-same-sex-marriage-are-identical-to-the-world/

      1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

      and do radical liberal things like feed the poor, take care of the sick, shelter the homeless,

      Ha! So judgmental. How do you KNOW I don’t do those things? Studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. They just don’t lobby Caesar to “give” your money and count it as a good deed on their part. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares

      not persecute the gay person,

      I never persecute gays. I love them enough to tell them the truth. Here’s a sample of how I share the Gospel with them: http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/evangelism-experiences-1/

      not hate the foreigner.

      More petty personal attacks from you. Do you know how many foreigners I PERSONALLY feed, clothe and school? You are confusing Jesus’ teachings with the Leftist vote-buying of illegal immigrants, and you are being generous with other people’s money (not a virtue!).

      Don’t worry, I’ll pray for you and that God frees your soul from the hate and judgment you suffer.

      Oh, so judgmental of you! But prayers to Molech don’t work.

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      1. You might offer some reasoned, loving, tolerant and fact based relies yourself, Neil. I see you making fun of other Christians here. And you don’t get to get away with “prove it.”

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      2. Read my latest post on Numbers 5 and comment there. Show me how I didn’t use facts and reasons. Otherwise, you are no different than the other “Christian” Left people who visit with generic insults.

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  10. Hello, I can’t tell you what a JOY it is to FINALLY find a blog written by a Christian who is addressing the lunacy that IS the “Christian Left” I find myself wanting to SCREAM everytime I visit their FB page a view hundreds of posts filled with ERROR and HATRED in Jesus name that endorses SO much ungodliness that personfies the left. Keep doing what you’re doing, brother. While you’re at it, prayerfully consider staring a FB page — so that we can get the word out about this CANCER in the body of Christ!!!

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    1. Thanks so much for visiting and commenting! It helps knowing there are others disgusted by the “Christian” Left and their hypocritical tactics. I’ll think about the FB page. I wouldn’t call it the Christian Right (though of course the political Right is much more aligned with the Bible than the Left). I’d just continue to “out” the fakes on the Left.

      Like

    2. Just curious, why do you continue to visit their page and read hundreds of posts if it makes you scream? Do you like screaming?

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      1. Cranky Yankee was replying to someone else, not me. I was just pointing out that her reply was meaningless. Some of us subject ourselves to the filth of the “Christian” Left so we can teach and rebuke.

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  11. Jesus never mocked those who needed Him. Jesus never taunted, nor became impatient. Jesus radiated Love, in it’s myriad forms. I find your mocking of comments from TCL Facebook site to be in contradiction to Jesus’ example.

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    1. Wow, then you must really be offended by what the “Christian” Left writes there! I’m sure you criticize them regularly for that.

      Jesus was very blunt in his name-calling. A few examples: Jesus called Pharisees “wicked,” “adulterous,” “sons of hell” (Matt. 23:15), “blind guides,” “blind men,” “white-washed tombs,” and even “snakes.” For those who didn’t believe Him, Jesus said they were “foolish” and that they were “of their father the devil (John 8:44).”

      Also see an example of what Paul said: Acts 13:9–10 But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?

      Like

      1. As you said, Jesus spoke specifically about Pharisees, not the general population. And who are you indicating with the verse from Paul? Who do you see as “son of the devil”?

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      2. Go read John 6, for example, of how He talked to people who followed him with wrong motives.

        Oh, and of course, Sandlin and Currie are on record for saying that the Gospel of John doesn’t belong in the Bible. Should I trust them or the early church?! http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/should-you-believe-the-authors-of-the-bible-or-the-christians-who-claim-the-writers-were-blasphemous-pathological-liars/?preview=true&preview_id=24275&preview_nonce=41ee43aaa0&post_format=standard

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  12. Hmm, we certainly see this in a different light. Personally, I think The Christian Left is very tuned in to the actual message Jesus preached while he was here. You know, that whole “love God, love your neighbor” thing? They’ve even shared a couple of my blog posts in the past, for which I am very grateful.
    I’m really having a hard time understanding how progressive Christianity (is which TCL is a practioner) is demonic, false teaching or anything else. Especially since it’s based on historical biblical scholarship and not the relatively new 5 Fundamentals that you seem to embrace. But, to each his (or her) own.

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    1. Hi Joel,

      Thanks for your reasoned tone. That’s quite a departure from the other visitors!

      Just one example: If you love your neighbor you’ll be anti-abortion. http://tinyurl.com/yzjq4lv http://www.advocatesoflife.com/graphicabortionimages.htm Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

      From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

      I’ve read all of Jesus’ message — which is the entire Bible, BTW — many times. It bears no resemblance to the covetous, murderous, God-mocking policies of the Left. Churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/churchgoers-who-support-same-sex-marriage-are-identical-to-the-world/

      1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

      I hope you reconsider your views. Only the real Jesus can save you.

      Like

      1. You’re very difficult to discuss views with, as you vilify those whom you presume a great deal about, something you’ve accused the Left of doing to you. The term “pro-abortion” is inaccurate and meant to incite those who have deeply held views about when life begins. There are many Democrats who do not support partial-birth abortion and for you to insinuate otherwise does the conversation a disservice.
        Quoting John 2: 15-16 is something very few can claim to have mastered, so it is inaccurate to quote it as applying to Democrats, but no others.
        As for the original poster using a reasonable tone, it could easily be pointed out that your own tone is one of complete intolerance to any interpretation of The Word but your own. That prevents conversation from happening, because there is not willingness to find a middle-ground where reasonable discourse can occur.

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      2. Life begins at fertilization. Scientific fact. http://www.abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/

        Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

        From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

        If you don’t support partial-birth abortion, that’s great! Change parties.

        I apply John 2 to people whose entire worldview is indistinguishable from the world’s.

        I’m all for reasonable discourse. Read my blog, especially the favorites section, for more. I do admit to little patience with wolves in sheep’s clothing, but I think I’m in good company.

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      3. Speaking as a leftist Christian who actually isn’t all too fond of abortion (I consider my stance on the issue to be moderate), have you ever considered the fact that…

        …Maybe abortion isn’t the ONLY Christian issue ever?

        …Maybe the Bible spends FAR more time discussing the evils of oppressing and neglecting the poor than “baby killing”?

        Just some food for thought. Not that you’re hungry or anything.

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      4. That argument proves nothing and it assumes you are actually doing things to help the poor. The good news is the blacks finally appear to be leaving the plantation. They’ve figured out that the Left wants their votes and nothing else.

        I talk about lots of issues, abortion is just a key because over 3,500 human beings were literally destroyed today with the blessing of the Left.

        Meanwhile, we are as generous as ever — Studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. They just don’t lobby Caesar to “give” your money and count it as a good deed on their part. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares

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      5. OH, and might I just point out the hilarious irony of you pointing to “scientific fact” to prove that life starts at conception, while conversely DENYING the far more concrete science behind the theory of evolution?

        Ha! The hypocrisy just keeps mounting, and mounting, and mounting!

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      6. Hey champ, I have all the embryology books on my side. All you have is an equivocation on the word “evolution.” Pro-aborts are anti-science. I’m too pro-science to be pro-abortion.

        http://www.abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/

        MODERN TEACHING TEXTS ON EMBRYOLOGY

        The Developing Human

        “Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

        “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

        Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

        Medical Embryology

        “Development begins with fertilization, the process by which the male gamete, the sperm, and the femal gamete, the oocyte, unite to give rise to a zygote.”

        T.W. Sadler, Langman’s Medical Embryology, 10th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2006. p. 11.

        Before We Are Born

        “[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

        Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

        Human Embryology and Teratology

        “Although life is a continuous process, fertilization (which, incidentally, is not a ‘moment’) is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte.”

        Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Müller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

        Human Embryology

        “Human embryos begin development following the fusion of definitive male and female gametes during fertilization… This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”

        William J. Larsen, Essentials of Human Embryology. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998. pp. 1, 14.

        OLDER TEACHING TEXTS

        Patten’s Human Embryology

        “It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitues the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

        Clark Edward Corliss, Patten’s Human Embryology: Elements of Clinical Development. New York: McGraw Hill, 1976. p. 30.

        Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics

        “The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops.”

        “The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.”

        J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Friedman, Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders, 1974. pp. 17, 23.

        Pathology of the Fetus and Infant

        “Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition.”

        E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3rd edition. Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975. p. vii.

        GENERAL AUDIENCE TEXTS ON PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT

        Beginning Life

        “Every baby begins life within the tiny globe of the mother’s egg… It is beautifully translucent and fragile and it encompasses the vital links in which life is carried from one generation to the next. Within this tiny sphere great events take place. When one of the father’s sperm cells, like the ones gathered here around the egg, succeeds in penetrating the egg and becomes united with it, a new life can begin.”

        Geraldine Lux Flanagan, Beginning Life. New York: DK, 1996. p. 13.

        PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT VIDEOS

        The Biology of Prenatal Development

        “Biologically speaking, human development begins at fertilization.”

        The Biology of Prenatal Develpment, National Geographic, 2006.

        In the Womb

        “The two cells gradually and gracefully become one. This is the moment of conception, when an individual’s unique set of DNA is created, a human signature that never existed before and will never be repeated.”

        In the Womb, National Geographic, 2005.

        EXPERT TESTIMONY RELATING TO LIFE’S BEGINNING

        In 1981, a United States Senate judiciary subcommittee received the following testimony from a collection of medical experts (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, Report, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981):

        “It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive…It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception.”

        Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth

        Harvard University Medical School

        “I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception.”

        Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni

        Professor of Pediatrics and Obstetrics, University of Pennsylvania

        “After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. [It] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion…it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception.”

        Dr. Jerome LeJeune

        Professor of Genetics, University of Descartes

        “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

        Professor Hymie Gordon

        Mayo Clinic

        “The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter – the beginning is conception.”

        Dr. Watson A. Bowes

        University of Colorado Medical School

        The official Senate report reached this conclusion:

        Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being – a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings.11

        The American Medical Association (AMA) declared as far back as 1857 (referenced in the Roe. vs. Wade opinion) that “the independent and actual existence of the child before birth, as a living being” is a matter of objective science. They deplored the “popular ignorance…that the foetus is not alive till after the period of quickening.”

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  13. I think this whole exercise is very sad. What a waste of time, this debate, when the hungry and oppressed still suffer. What is the most sad (and sadly, the most human) is the glee with which all you supposed grown ups bring to this debate. Can we just get on with the work of helping and loving one another, or are we still faced with an eternity of arguing over angels on the head of a pin?

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    1. It is sad that false teachers crept in the church and teach all sorts of evils, such as how Jesus is pro-abortion and pro-LGBTQX, and how it is “giving” on your part if you petition the gov’t to take from one neighbor by force to give to another.

      And the Left lies about the need and means of salvation. What could be more important than that? Eternity is a mighty long time, and the “Christian” Left gets it exactly wrong.

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      1. I don’t know one person who shares my Progressive views who is willing to say Jesus is pro-abortion. Those are words you use, which is false. We say Jesus is never quoted as having a specific teaching regarding abortion. Much of what Conservatives use to support Jesus teaching their POV is very much open to interpretation, just as the entire Bible is. That’s why there are so MANY Christianities – because it’s all open to a person’s interpretation.

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      2. I’m just going with the platform that you political party pushes: Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

        From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

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      3. To speak to your second inquiry – the need and means for Salvation…..Love is more important than that, as a matter of fact IS Salvation. When love is employed as a person’s means to make all decisions it quickly becomes clear what God, our Creator, meant when Jesus was directed to preach Love one another. Once Love becomes your life’s axiom, all of Jesus’ teachings become crystal clear, and easy to employ in daily living. Following Jesus to Salvation isn’t about blood, hanging on a cross, or endless suffering – it’s simply, magnificently, perfectly about Love. Love conquers fear. The Conservative view of the need for the death of Jesus on the cross is equal to living in fear, because you accept as your life’s axiom that to do otherwise means your Father, Creator, Teacher will punish you for failing Him. But I put to you that God is Love, so therefor God would never punish you – not while on Earth, not beyond Death. God’s Love is Perfection, and Perfection is God’s Love. Fear cannot exist when you dwell in God’s unimaginably boundless Love.

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      4. Oh, thanks for clarifying. You are teaching falsely. 1 Corinthians 15 notes the real Gospel. Then Galatians 1 explains why we should avoid false teacher like you: Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

        You are just making a god in your own image and stealing the name of Christ to do so. You should stop doing that. Better yet, read the Bible carefully, embrace it as the word of God that it is, and repent and believe.

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      5. You use a lot of words to say very little.

        Speaking as a Leftist Christian, I wouldn’t say that Jesus was necessarily “Pro” LGBT, and he definitely wasn’t “Pro” abortion.

        The essential problem with your stance is that you paint everything with a black and white brush: “If Jesus wasn’t ‘Pro’ [something], he must have been ‘Against’ [something]!!”

        That’s a childishly simplistic analyses.

        Does the Abrahamic God approve of Homosexuality? Well, no; does that mean the LAW should impose restrictions on people’s sexuality? …Well, no!
        You’d do well to remember that Adultery, just like Homosexuality, was punishable by death. You’d also do well to remember that Jesus said that any man who even so much as looked at another woman lustfully is an adulterer. This in and of itself puts EVERY single man (or person, rather) on the same level of immorality as any homosexual. And, if you recall, the NT shows us a scene in which Jesus acquits an adulterous woman of all her sins.
        To summarize: all sexual sin is equally punishable. All people are sexually immoral. The Christian God grants forgiveness. And, as you may recall, Jesus said that any man who does not forgive his fellow man will equally go unforgiven by the Father in heaven.

        All you’re accomplishing by restricting the freedom of LGBT people is…
        A) Making yourself and all Christians look like ignorant bigots
        B) Isolating the general populace from your moral outlook
        C) Holding back forgiveness which, as a Christian rule, will not be granted to you in the afterlife.

        You put all your time and energy into silly social issues, while TOTALLY neglecting the ACTUAL essence of Christianity: The call to help the poor. That’s precisely what conservatives like you preach against. Might I remind you that the Bible declares that true religion is this: to help the cause of the poor and the widow.

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      6. You use a lot of words to say very little.

        Petty ad hominem. Indicative that you have no real substance to offer.

        Speaking as a Leftist Christian, I wouldn’t say that Jesus was necessarily “Pro” LGBT, and he definitely wasn’t “Pro” abortion.

        Then switch parties.

        You’d do well to remember that Adultery, just like Homosexuality, was punishable by death. You’d also do well to remember that Jesus said that any man who even so much as looked at another woman lustfully is an adulterer. This in and of itself puts EVERY single man (or person, rather) on the same level of immorality as any homosexual. And, if you recall, the NT shows us a scene in which Jesus acquits an adulterous woman of all her sins.

        Yes! We are all sinners in need of a Savior. Good point.

        To summarize: all sexual sin is equally punishable. All people are sexually immoral. The Christian God grants forgiveness. And, as you may recall, Jesus said that any man who does not forgive his fellow man will equally go unforgiven by the Father in heaven.

        Yep. But where the Left goes wrong is saying that LGBTQX behavior is NOT a sin. Churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/churchgoers-who-support-same-sex-marriage-are-identical-to-the-world/

        1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

        All you’re accomplishing by restricting the freedom of LGBT people is…
        A) Making yourself and all Christians look like ignorant bigots
        B) Isolating the general populace from your moral outlook
        C) Holding back forgiveness which, as a Christian rule, will not be granted to you in the afterlife.

        No, the Leftists hold them back by telling them they don’t need to repent! If you want to win over the general populace you are really getting Christianity wrong!

        You put all your time and energy into silly social issues,

        This is not silly or little. http://tinyurl.com/yzjq4lv http://www.advocatesoflife.com/graphicabortionimages.htm

        This is not silly or little. Here are 300 examples of the LGBTQX agenda at work — large and small — http://englishmanif.blogspot.com/2014/07/300-articles-you-have-to-read-to.html

        Also see what government recognition of “same-sex marriage” did in Massachussetts — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX55HUPFSU&feature=youtu.be

        while TOTALLY neglecting the ACTUAL essence of Christianity: The call to help the poor. That’s precisely what conservatives like you preach against. Might I remind you that the Bible declares that true religion is this: to help the cause of the poor and the widow.

        This is where you fakery comes through. You have no idea how much I give to the poor! You ignore the facts: Studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. They just don’t lobby Caesar to “give” your money and count it as a good deed on their part. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares

        You conflate lobbying Caesar to force redistribution with real giving and think it qualifies as giving on your part! What a lovely lie to believe.

        And you think your policies help the poor, when they really enslave them.

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      7. I’m not speaking to a political platform, so why are you? I am speaking of humanity’s relationship to God. Political platforms are beside the point. Why not consider what I pointed out – not one Progressive I know believes Jesus was pro-abortion, and you are inciting outrage falsely by repeating a false statement.

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      8. Huh? You are saying not one progressive agrees with the Democratic platform?!

        Politics aside, you deny the cross and the resurrection, so you teach falsely. I hope you repent and believe.

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      9. When a Conservative Christian equates living in God’s Love is a false teaching then there really is too large a chasm to engage in meaningful conversation. This reminds me of the story God Will Save Me
        http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html
        You’re being given opportunity upon opportunity to consider what other humans have come to see as God’s Will, but you’re so busy turning their ideas aside that you can’t See. But, God has also given you Free Will, and will forgive you – always – for your shortcoming.

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      10. That’s not what I said. Of course we should live in God’s love. But you are not worshiping the real God. You deny what Jesus did for us!

        Your problem is that the answers are right there in scripture but you specifically deny them and substitute a god of your own making. Bad idea.

        Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

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  14. To respond to your second response to my initial inquiry;
    Once you suggest the early church is wiser, without consideration, than those who study now you begin the descent into the chasm which separates ultra-Conservatives and Progressive Christians. Progressive are absolutely willing to give consideration to views that have existed in the hundreds of years since the books of the Bible were first decided upon (by humans). If you can’t, and won’t, open your mind to the possibility that God has, and does, use humans to continue to spread his Will then it is all-but impossible to have any conversation at all. This is the divide between your POV, and the POV of people such as myself.

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    1. If you deny the Gospel of John is scripture then I can’t help you. It is a false argument to say we don’t consider other views (we read all sorts of things!). It is worse yet to deny the authority of scripture.

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      1. Did I say I deny the gospel of John is scripture, or did I suggest that John did not have the final Word of God given? Speak to my point, or how can we have a conversation.

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  15. I’m interested to know how you guys view my take on tax.
    I’m a severely disabled person, I require 24/7 care to live, as well as many other aspects of support that I cannot pay for. It’s possible I’ll never be able to work due to my condition, however I do volunteer as much as I am capable.
    Without the support I receive through others being taxed. Am I to rely solely on the chance that people will help me, out of the kindness of their hearts and there will never be a situation ever, that I may be left alone, or that I will always have access to the equipment that I cannot afford to buy.
    There are many many people in my situation, and more severe situations.
    Currently under the current tax/redistribution, I am able to live a life. I am guaranteed a minimum standard. Without a tax system it cannot be guaranteed.
    This is just one example of many, where tax assures people’s safety, usually the most vulnerable in society.

    My view, is that we are to help our brothers and sisters, and that a better world is one where we guarantee a standard of living for the most vulnerable in society.

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    1. Hi Andy,

      Thanks for visiting and commenting, and good questions! While ideally the church would address your needs, the sad truth is that the church let the gov’t take over starting about 100 years ago and it has been downhill since.

      I offer this illustration to help answer your question:
      http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/the-isle-of-deserta-exercise-or-how-a-bunch-of-7th-graders-are-better-at-setting-up-a-society-than-our-politicians/

      If people can’t support themselves, we should help them. But as the Bible says, if you can work and don’t, then you don’t eat.

      Re. the most vulnerable in society: That would be the unborn, over 3,500 of whom were destroyed today with the blessing of the “Christian” Left. They are also the ones encouraging physician assisted suicide. I’d watch out for them if I were you. They’ll keep telling you how “brave” you would be to kill yourself, while I will tell you to choose life.

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      1. Oh come on – that is JUST SILLY. The church let the government take over about 100 years ago?? Really?? That’s your response. No one, 100 years ago, survived for long when having any type of disability that required 24/7 care. No church HAD to offer support for such care, because it didn’t even exist. My son is severely disabled and will also need such care provided by others when I am unable to provide it. For now, it is my 24/7 job to give him all he needs in order to thrive, as best he can in his non-responsive body. For you to pretend any church would offer the financial support necessary to fully care for a person who requires such intensive attention is disingenuous, at best, and a flat-out lie at worst.

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      2. And again you don’t actually address my response. It seems if you don’t have a pat cut-and-paste answer you’re not willing to directly answer at all.

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      3. Now that’s ironic! You randomly throw out the plank verse then do the very thing that verse applies to: judge hypocritically!

        You made the fallacious shellfish claim. I thoroughly refuted it, referring to the original languages, the context of the passage and more. You can back with the non sequitur about the plank verse. Don’t comment again unless you stay on topic. Address my specific claims or say nothing. I’m fine either way.

        And you still teach a false gospel. See Galatians 1.

        >

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      4. Hi,
        I’m still very unconvinced that I or other severely disabled people would have any sort of confidence or assurance of basic safety, let alone any quality of life.
        I didn’t mention abortion, nor do I agree with it – however are you saying their life is worth more than mine? I don’t understand why you’ve avoided any direct answers to my questions, and moved to things I neither mention, nor believe in.

        Regarding how care for disabled people was 100 years ago, well it was dire. Institutions if not outright shunning/left to die. You say it has been downhill ever since, yet I’ve explained that I currently have a quality of life unthinkable without tax. I fail to see how that specific part of social care is regarded as downhill, perhaps you could elaborate (on this specific issue in particular)

        And I think to say the Christian left would tell me to kill myself is not based in reality, I’ve never been told that or had that mentioned to me by any Christian, until now.

        However, if you were to remove my tax funded help, then yes, I would likely die.

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      5. Hi Andy,

        “I didn’t mention abortion, nor do I agree with it – however are you saying their life is worth more than mine?”

        Both have value. There is no trade-off. The point is that the Left cheers when Down Syndrome and other potentially disabled people are killed in the womb, as if that has somehow accomplished something. If I were you I’d run as far from them as I could, because they’ll rationalize your destruction next.

        Re. suicide — I’m not saying they aggressively push it, but watch their language for those who choose to kill themselves and how “brave” those people are. So if they are brave for doing it, what does that make you — in their eyes — for not doing it?

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      6. But, you still haven’t answered my questions regarding tax, or mentioned my point regarding ‘going down hill’

        I personally do not know anyone who cheers when a baby is aborted. I certainly do not.

        Again though, it seems you have missed my major point and question, and moved the issue to something different. Simply, without tax can vulnerable/disabled people be assured safety and quality of life,
        if yes – how,
        if no – how can that be accepted?

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      7. I thought I answered that clearly. Just because we need some taxes as a safety net for disabled people doesn’t mean a blank check for every leftist dream.

        >

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  16. Well, this is disappointing. I came here to see Christian theology ironed out by issue and find it hard to filter through all the attacks. It is a mistake to try to put everyone in one box. I find a lot of merit with the beliefs of the Christian left, but perhaps not ALL issues. If there emerges a thread on here that deals with one topic (at a time) without the “Oh yeah, well you . . .” kind of response, I might like to participate. However, it is your page and it is your prerogative to run it any way you want.

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      1. I am not interested in defending some group that I may or may not agree with on certain issues. Instead, let me ask you this: The Bible has a running theme about taking care of the poor. Why do you think that is? I am not talking about governments nor individuals – nothing that specific. I just want to know why you think the Bible talks so much about taking care of the poor.

        BTW – I want to thank you for taking the time to address my comments. I see how busy you are with all these others.

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      2. Hi Jeff,

        Good question. Because God wants us to take care of the poor. They are created in the image of God and worthy of protection and help, if needed. But He didn’t say to force your neighbor to care for the poor. And He wouldn’t want them crushed and dismembered in the womb because some people didn’t want them alive, as the “Christian” Left supports.

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      3. >Good question. Because God wants us to take care of the poor. They are created in the image of God and worthy of protection and help, if needed. But He didn’t say to force your neighbor to care for the poor. And He wouldn’t want them crushed and dismembered in the womb because some people didn’t want them alive, as the “Christian” Left supports.<<

        Thank you for your reply. I, too, detest abortion. We are not going to disagree about that so . . .

        Another question: Is the USA a Christian nation or SHOULD it be?

        I am keeping this exchange short and concise in deference to your time. You are obviously very busy with all these other exchanges.

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      4. Hi Jeff,

        Thanks for the follow up, and I’m so glad you detest abortion. It is so sad how the Left encourages people to abort anyone with something the “might” be wrong, such as Down Syndrome.

        I avoid the “Christian nation” term because everyone seems to interpret it differently. There is no question that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were not just deists but publicly committed, Bible-believing Christians. And the Christian worldview plus capitalism (not the perversion of “crony capitalism” that we have today) lifted more people out of poverty than any “ism” ever.

        My goal is to share the real Gospel with people. That will change hearts and minds where God wills and that will make them more generous (it worked for me!). I would never try to force someone to believe.

        Having said that, Christian principles view the world the way it really is and will make for the best laws (don’t steal, don’t kill, etc.).

        What do you think?

        P.S. I prayed for your situation! Blessings to you.

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      5. “Is the USA a Christian nation, and should it be?”

        That’s a tougher one that you might think. Our hearts say “Yes! Of course!” but in fact the USA is quite obviously one of those “things of this earth” we are warned strongly not to get too attached to. It has souls inside it, but a government cannot be a soul. Be very careful here. This looks a bit like a trap…

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      6. >I avoid the “Christian nation” term because everyone seems to interpret it differently. There is no question that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were not just deists but publicly committed, Bible-believing Christians. And the Christian worldview plus capitalism (not the perversion of “crony capitalism” that we have today) lifted more people out of poverty than any “ism” ever.
        . . .
        Having said that, Christian principles view the world the way it really is and will make for the best laws (don’t steal, don’t kill, etc.).

        What do you think?<<

        I am like you in that I think Christian principles should be utilized by the country. That is why I don't have a problem with taxes going to help the poor. Like you said, "God wants us to take care of the poor. They are created in the image of God and worthy of protection and help, if needed."

        Where I respectfully disagree with some on the right is that since the poor is precious in God's sight, and I would like the country to emulate God's values more, it only makes sense to me that our country (founded on Christian principles with many Christians living and worshiping here) that we would not only permit that the country help the poor, but also encourage it. You would think that the whole "using tax dollars" issue would be much less important than making sure that those of us created in God's image do not do without the necessities of life that so many of us take for granted.

        It seems to me that the conflict would lie with those who do NOT share God's values. Fortunately, most of those have no problem with that concept so I would think that would finally be a place of agreement between Christians and secularists. However, sometimes I think that if one finds disagreement with a particular group they are inclined to want to disagree with EVERYTHING that group values. That is unfortunate since I strongly believe that God writes his values on all our hearts whether we are believers or not. Some values get squelched, it is true, but I don't believe many folks can squelch all of His love and values.

        If the Christian right is so provoked at the thought of government allowing gay marriage (which is a doctrinal thing), you would think it would be consistent that the right would also be equally motivated for government to protect those in poverty which we both accept is important to God.

        If charity was enough to satisfy all the needy, I would say that it isn't necessary for government to intervene. But sadly, that just isn't the situation. So, for me, I must support the government helping the poor and disadvantaged because I can't stand the thought of some of us not having food, shelter, or clothing or even just being able to operate in society in a dignified manner.

        Thanks for this discussion. I hope our disagreement doesn't deter you from continuing this or further discussions. I think we agree on a lot, but I am sure we disagree on some things, too. If at any time my disagreement comes out mean spirited or personal, please call me on it. That isn't how I want to represent myself or my God. I am asking because I know how easy it is to go to those places when there is passion in arguments. Thanks again, and thanks for your prayers.

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  17. I think you need to go back to the Bible, not what some pastor told you was in the Bible. I think you need to discern the difference between the Old Testament and the Words of Christ. Christ Himself over-rode some of the Old Testament, which is basically a roadmap of how to be a good Jew. Saint Paul did the same. Are you circumcised yet? Why not? Do you wear “mixed fibers”? Why do you allow yourself that sin? Do you eat pork or shellfish? How is it that you can cherry-pick Leviticus to your own ends without sinning?

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    1. I’ve read all the Bible, many times. I know that Jesus is divine and agrees with it all. I know what He said about the OT. I know your fallacious arguments about Leviticus. The shrimp / shellfish argument is full of holes but is appealing to many because so few bother to study the passages. I address six serious problems with it in flaws of the shellfish argument. The short version: There were different Hebrew words translated as abomination. They were used differently in the individual verses and were used very differently in broader contexts. The associated sins had radically different consequences and had 100% different treatments in the New Testament. And the claim that Christians are inconsistent if they say homosexual behavior is a sin if they don’t also avoid shellfish, mixed fibers, etc. would mean that they couldn’t complain about bestiality, child sacrifice, adultery, etc.

      The longer version: http://tinyurl.com/shellfishflaws

      Try again!

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  18. Have you even read your bible? What a bunch of nonsense you spew forth. Gee, what would Jesus say and or do? Love your brother! Love, love, love is what he taught. Get educated biblically before spewing!

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    1. LOL. I’ve read it all — every verse — countless times. I read it once per year at least. When was the last time you read it all? Do you believe it is all the word of God, or do you think the writers were blasphemous liars for claiming it was? http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/should-you-believe-the-authors-of-the-bible-or-the-christians-who-claim-the-writers-were-blasphemous-pathological-liars/?preview=true&preview_id=24275&preview_nonce=41ee43aaa0&post_format=standard

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      1. By your own assertion, you either believe all the Bible authors wrote, or you’re not a follower of God. When that is made out to be an axiom of a person’s belief system then a Progressive like myself points to the teachings in, of course, Leviticus. If you don’t believe in cherry-picking verses, then you must be living according to the Laws of Leviticus. What say you?

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      2. Here’s what I say: The Leviticus argument is thrown out by those who live in a Leftist bubble and have never thought carefully about the issue and/or considered the opposing arguments.

        The shrimp / shellfish argument is full of holes but is appealing to many because so few bother to study the passages. I address six serious problems with it in flaws of the shellfish argument. The short version: There were different Hebrew words translated as abomination. They were used differently in the individual verses and were used very differently in broader contexts. The associated sins had radically different consequences and had 100% different treatments in the New Testament. And the claim that Christians are inconsistent if they say homosexual behavior is a sin if they don’t also avoid shellfish, mixed fibers, etc. would mean that they couldn’t complain about bestiality, child sacrifice, adultery, etc.

        The longer version: http://tinyurl.com/shellfishflaws

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      3. Well, that’s one way to put on your blinders and stick your fingers in your ears. What I think Jesus would say to you about the shrimp/shellfish argument is – take the plank out of your own eye…..

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      4. My dear, sweet boy…..many of your own answers are woefully “fact free”. Your idea of fact is nestled in the fear of not being found worthy of entering Heaven. God didn’t allow you to manifest on Earth so you could spend your time running away from your fear by bathing in and displaying the blood of Jesus. God placed you here to spread the word of Love. I hope, some day, you’ll open your heart to something much greater than fear of being unworthy, fear of being left behind, fear of your own capacity to manifest Jesus’ ability to give love. In that moment, when this Truth pierces you, your mind will be so open you will cry for the adulation you feel, breaking free of the chains you placed about your own soul.

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      5. You just go from one dodge to the next. I know exactly what the Bible says. You falsely claim the name of Christ and make up your own version. Leopard Theology (aka Dalmatian Theology) is where people claim that the Bible is only inspired in spots and that they are inspired to spot the spots. Then there is Advanced Leopard Theology, where God is also changing spots and adding and removing spots, and, oddly enough, He is only telling theological Leftists and “Progressives.” http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/leopard-theology/

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  19. Wow, truly sad to hear this. Jesus said the two greatest commandments are love God and love thy neighbor. Clearly the Christian right does not follow these simple instructions given to us by the messiah. If someone is gay or kills themselves or chooses to abort their child they must deal God themselves not ours to judge. But I much rather have them be gay, suicidal abortion choosing Christians rather than atheists. These ‘sinners’ affect you in no way. Only you do.

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    1. Hi Frankie,

      Studies show that by any measure — giving time, money or even blood donations — conservatives are more generous. They just don’t lobby Caesar to “give” your money and count it as a good deed on their part. See http://www.nationalreview.com/content/who-really-cares That’s loving God and neighbor.

      Real Christians oppose this and this . That’s loving God and neighbor.

      We share the real Gospel with anyone willing to hear it. That’s loving God and neighbor.

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  20. Not here to fight… I’m just a bit discouraged by the back and forth between the two of your sites.. I see more preservation of personal ego’s and less about the Good Word. Our faith is being broken in two, we work harder to find differences in practice of faith than connecting on the one similarity that connects us all… Our Father God. Let’s just spread the Word to our best abilities. This is not Christ like. No, we’re not supposed to be of this world… but we are supposed to love eachother as Christ so loved all. ALL. EVERYONE…

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    1. Hi,

      Thanks for visiting and commenting. If you agree that the Bible is the word of God, then you have much more in common with me than with the “Christian” Left. I’m all for getting along, but if they are teaching a false gospel then I can’t be yoked with them.

      Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

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  21. This attempt at discourse and conversation has made me feel very sad and concerned. I have read some comments, not all because I feel reading all would not be healthy but there is probably some good stuff in there I am missing, and I wonder what is the point? I have different beliefs than other Christians, beliefs that are based in scripture, but beliefs that would be considered “liberal.” When we have different beliefs, we can talk about those beliefs and learn from one another. We can debate one another and have arguments. At the end of the day, we most likely will not change the minds or positions of one another, but we can understand one another and maybe even become friends with one another.

    One side doesn’t have to be right and the other side wrong. It’s no wonder there are so many problems when people with different view points get together and try to prove their point, prove they are right. Whether it is in politics, or the church, or the workplace, or the marketplace, we want to win the argument and show how right we are and how wrong the other side is. In my understanding of the Bible, this is not what the Kingdom of God is all about.

    We are all “decent people,” and we are all capable of evil. We live in a fallen world and Jesus has shown us how the world will be made whole again through him. Let’s get to know each other and live out the Kingdom of God.

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    1. Hi Tom,

      I appreciate your sentiments, but those assume we are all Christians. Jesus warned many times against false teachers and the importance of sound doctrine — http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-importance-of-sound-doctrine/ .

      If we agree on the essentials (Jesus’ divinity & exclusivity, the Trinity, the authority of the Bible, etc.) then we can debate all sorts of non-essentials. I don’t divide over how people baptize, do communion, etc. even though I have strong opinions. But I do divide over the essentials. And based on those, the Christian Left is not Christian.

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  22. Neil Simpson; I, too, challenge you. I see a lot of false bravado on your part. I’m not making fun, it appears to me that you don’t really believe a lot of what you say. As for Jesus being a socialist, no he wasn’t. But he did call for his followers at the time to give up more than you are willing to give up. Are you going to sell everything and live day by day on God’s grace? This is a call to be homeless, own no possessions, depend on the goodness of other people. Are you going to do that? If not, when someone has a different word for it, don’t make fun. And yes, you make fun of people who visit your site. If you are deleted on the Christian Left facebook page, it is because of your behavior which is not cordial or accepting. It isn’t here, so I’m not surprised if decent people delete you for being yourself there.

    This brings me to another big mistake you make and it is one other right wing Xians make too. Christianity is not about what you believe. It is about what you do. Jesus accepts all people. Even atheists. We have atheists in our church and why not? The Good News is for them too. Just as it is for homosexuals, for people born different, for right wingers. We accept everyone in our church, that is Christ’s way. When you mock, twist people’s words around, call them names (pro-abortion – I’ve never heard them advocate abortion- or sinners or pro-gay) you are the one who fails Christ. You behave in a way that tells the world that you are not what you say you are. Don’t deflect this to anyone else. This is about you.

    Another point, from what you say about yourself, Christianity and the Faith we have in Christ are not Cold War propaganda. Kindly refrain from using it as such. The Cold War is over. The words of Christ are not to be used to start a war. Yet that has happened to often in the past.

    Last thing, the Right follow a philosophy called Objectivism. It is a creation of Ayn Rand. Your anti-socialism rhetoric comes directly from Ayn Rand. She hated Jesus Christ and all He stood for. She created Objectivism to be the complete opposite of Christianity. As such, you cannot serve both God and the love of money which she also preached. Who is John Galt? The Anti-Christ. That was her intention. You have a choice to make my friend.

    Christ lives in you too. But it seems that there is a disconnect within you. If you need help, I’m here for you. I have compassion for you. While I am not perfect, and you are not perfect, we can be here for each other. If you will listen, I will help you all I can.

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    1. I, too, challenge you. I see a lot of false bravado on your part. I’m not making fun, it appears to me that you don’t really believe a lot of what you say.

      Yawn. Another judgmental fake Christian who is just sure he knows what I “really” think. Yeah, I’ve been faking it for over 3,000 blog posts now ;-).

      But he did call for his followers at the time to give up more than you are willing to give up.

      You judgmental troll, you have no idea what I’ve given up or am willing to give up.

      “If not, when someone has a different word for it, don’t make fun.”

      Forced redistribution is not “a different word for it,” it is something else entirely.

      This brings me to another big mistake you make and it is one other right wing Xians make too. Christianity is not about what you believe. It is about what you do. Jesus accepts all people. Even atheists.

      That’s really, really very wrong. If the atheists convert then He accepts them (I know, I used to be one!). But then they aren’t atheists, they are Christians!

      Of course Christianity is about what you believe. For you to say otherwise is anti-biblical ignorance.

      We have atheists in our church and why not? The Good News is for them too.

      Yes, if they repent and believe.

      Just as it is for homosexuals,

      Yes, if they repent and believe. But if you lie and say the behavior isn’t sinful then shame on you.

      We accept everyone in our church, that is Christ’s way.

      Read Matthew 18 or 1 Cor. 5 lately?

      When you mock, twist people’s words around, call them names (pro-abortion – I’ve never heard them advocate abortion- or sinners or pro-gay) you are the one who fails Christ. You behave in a way that tells the world that you are not what you say you are. Don’t deflect this to anyone else. This is about you.

      If you support the Dem’s platform of increase abortions via taxpayer-funding and no restrictions then you pro-abortion — just like someone who was pro-legalized slavery would be pro-slavery.

      Another point, from what you say about yourself, Christianity and the Faith we have in Christ are not Cold War propaganda. Kindly refrain from using it as such. The Cold War is over. The words of Christ are not to be used to start a war. Yet that has happened to often in the past.

      Tell that to the people at the “Christian” Left. You, like so many other critics, are hypocritical in the extreme for giving them a pass. Especially the charming woman who felt so comfortable at that site but told me to shove the Bible up my ass!

      Last thing, the Right follow a philosophy called Objectivism. It is a creation of Ayn Rand. Your anti-socialism rhetoric comes directly from Ayn Rand. She hated Jesus Christ and all He stood for. She created Objectivism to be the complete opposite of Christianity. As such, you cannot serve both God and the love of money which she also preached. Who is John Galt? The Anti-Christ. That was her intention. You have a choice to make my friend.

      Ha! Ayn Rand was pro-abortion, and so are you, so you agree with Ayn Rand. You have a choice to make my friend!

      Now do you see how the guilt-by-association fallacy is foolish? Maybe you should give the Ayn Rand stuff a rest. She was right about the motives and destructiveness of the Left but wrong about the solutions and wrong about abortion — and of course, wrong about Jesus — just in a different wrong way than you.

      Christ lives in you too. But it seems that there is a disconnect within you. If you need help, I’m here for you. I have compassion for you. While I am not perfect, and you are not perfect, we can be here for each other. If you will listen, I will help you all I can.

      Oh, the fake love of concern trolls. Thanks but no thanks. I am blessed beyond measure with salvation and peace from the one true Savior. I hope that you and your friends find him one day. As of now you have made a god in your own image.

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      1. I came here to talk and you call me a troll. I must have really hit you where it hurts. Good. I find you attempts to use abortion and gays to be more mind control than reasoned attempts to apply God’s Word. I happen to be a psychologist and I recognize mind control tech when I see it. I see you mock God. You have a lot to answer for. I leave you in God’s Hands. The Lord take you.

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  23. I most likely don’t know anything, but I always thought Christianity was a religion of tolerance, caring for fellow human beings, and turning the other cheek. I do know that Christ commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy; however, I don’t see a lot of that these days. I am pretty much disillusioned with everything in this country.

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    1. There is plenty to be disillusioned with, but don’t give up hope! Study the Bible carefully. Don’t worry about what others do, make sure your sins are forgiven by placing your trust in Jesus. Serve the poor and needy all you like! It is a joyful thing to do.

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      1. I have studied the Bible a lot. However, I’ve noticed that you are attacking anyone who has a different interpretation than you. You are a part of my disillusionment.

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      2. I’m quite Liberal on the non-essentials. But not on the essentials. Example: The Bible teaches over 100 times that Jesus is the only way to salvation (scan the New Testament — you can’t miss it!). So if you deny that, you aren’t a Christian. Currie, Sandlin, et al deny that. That is their prerogative. I believe in religious freedom. But words mean things. They are not Christians in the true sense of the word.

        What if I said that I’m a Muslim, but I don’t think Mohammad was a prophet, I love bacon, I have lots of Jewish friends, I think the Koran is in error on many things, etc. Would you question my sincerity as a Muslim? I hope you would. Same thing for Currie et al.

        Sorry you are disillusioned, but I hope you get right with Jesus if you aren’t already. Blaming me on judgment day will get you nowhere!

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      3. Bravo Ellen. Point to you. It’s “Attack Dog Theology” and you’re supposed to retreat in face of its barking, rather than ask for rational replies.
        I, too, have “read the Bible a lot” – six times cover-to-cover in the years I was in Grade School. Many more times since, in shorter increments. I have read the “Catholic Bible” (Douay), the New Standard, parts of a translation directly from Greek, the “Good News” version, (all of that one) and compared many verses back and forth. I own 10 versions, not counting duplicates I keep for nostalgic reasons, such as the one I got for perfect attendance at my childhood Free Evangelical Church and the one my late husband got at his Southern Baptist Sunday school. (His has a nice concordance and Jesus’s words in red, and a blue leather binding. Mine is falling apart from use and the fact my church was church-mouse poor, and it has a cardboard binding with cheap glue, but I love it!)

        Take heart and do not be disillusioned. What is happening is that traditional patriarchy is once again losing ground. Like in other such times, it is clawing and barking and howling in its diminishment like any faltering thing. These men who hold this old line grew up thinking when they were big they would get to be family patriarch and feel history is stealing that from them.

        Well, for all my studies I see “history” as just another aspect of God. Hang on and enjoy the ride.
        (You don’t really have a choice, you know…) =D

        Final note: Saint Paul said it was wrong for Christians to “throw stumbling blocks” in the way of other Christians over minor points. So I do this in a sense of fun. Shalom.

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      4. You’ve read the Bible a lot, but do you understand and believe it? Do you think Jesus is the only way to salvation? Is He fully God and fully man? Is homosexual behavior a sin?

        Satan know scripture, too.

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      5. Yes, I do think I understand my Bible(s) as well as is humanly possible without the funds to become a full-time Biblical scholar. Yes I do believe in Christ, even the miraculous parts. I’m just not convinced that God revealed everything He knows.

        (What are the odds? Really? Come on… God has already punished us for wanting to know everything… Remember Eden?)

        I can’t find some of your beliefs in it, exactly. They appear to be extrapolations of certain verses that are a bit speculative on your part. (This is why we have more than one sect of Christianity and there are still Jews.)

        Take the bit about Sodom and Gomorrah. You prefer one (common) interpretation here but to me it says it’s wrong to rape angels and makes God very angry. He’s not nice when he’s angry, Forcible sex is the sin. Dissing God’s messengers is one too.

        Leviticus? Wasting one’s sperm is a sin and in Biblical terms this “waste” is anything that doesn’t create babies to make Israel stronger. (Keep in mind that it had only recently been discovered that men had anything to do with babies, so there’s some “O boy, look at us and our stuff!” about this part of the scripture. Therefore “self-pleasuring” by a man is the same level of sin as gay sex. This is why what seems so vital to you (but is really based in your ancient European culture) is set into the same chapter as mixing fibers. (Bad for the Jewish herdsmen to allow those darned Egyptians to mix in cotton! Israel was still a pastoral nation.) Eating pigs and shellfish…? (Bad for the digestive tract before refrigeration. A sick Israelite is a weak Israelite!)

        Self-pleasuring by women, and lesbianism, are not mentioned because it isn’t wasting anything.

        (Or, God loves us more than you men… No, that’s just silly… I’m teasing.)

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      6. Show me my alleged errors using the Bible, in context, and I’ll be all ears. I don’t expect to be popular with the world.

        2 Timothy 4:3–4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

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  24. Please say this is a parody website. My nephew works at Walmart. During his employees orientation, they taught him to sign up for government handouts as a job benefit. They are getting rich off his back and have to be made to pay taxes to be redistributed to the poverty stricken families they have created. Also, you seem uninformed about the left. We are not all the same and resent being painted with your broad brush. The Bible says if a pregnant woman is caused to lose her pregnancy, a small fine should be paid to the husband/owner. If God is so concerned with abortuon, he would have ordered stoning. So why get your panties in a knot over things God is not terribly worried about? Also, it is my deep pleasure to inform you I believe in a literal resurrection and bodily ascent into heaven. I also believe Jesus was a homeless, unemployed man who lived off the charity of others. If he was here today, you guys would condemn him for living like he did. He also drank huge amounts of wine and his first miracle was making wine. Loosen up some. I’m sure JC meant for us to love one another and enjoy life

    Like

    1. Please say this is a parody website. My nephew works at Walmart. During his employees orientation, they taught him to sign up for government handouts as a job benefit. They are getting rich off his back and have to be made to pay taxes to be redistributed to the poverty stricken families they have created.

      I oppose crony capitalism. You are welcome to start businesses that compete with Wal-Mart and take all their best employees by paying them and treating them better.

      The Bible says if a pregnant woman is caused to lose her pregnancy, a small fine should be paid to the husband/owner. If God is so concerned with abortuon, he would have ordered stoning. So why get your panties in a knot over things God is not terribly worried about?

      You don’t know the Bible, you know pro-abortion sound bites. Pro-choice advocates often refer to a passage in Exodus 21 to support their views.

      When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. (Exodus 21:22–25, ESV)

      The short version is that the key word of the passage is often not translated well and says “miscarriage” instead of “children come out.” It you study the original Hebrew it becomes very clear that Moses did not mean that if the child is killed that the penalty is less severe.

      More here, with a listing of all the errors pro-aborts make with this passage: http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/exodus-21-and-abortion/

      Also, it is my deep pleasure to inform you I believe in a literal resurrection and bodily ascent into heaven.

      Good for you! I encourage you to study the Bible more carefully. 2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

      He also drank huge amounts of wine

      Huge amounts? Got any Bible verses for that? Getting drunk is a sin. He would not have done that.

      Loosen up some. I’m sure JC meant for us to love one another and enjoy life

      Again, study the Bible carefully. He meant for us to repent and believe.

      Like

  25. To those concerned about moderation, I gave you more comments than you deserved and the “Christian Left” page gave me 100% less than I gave you. If you follow the commenting guidelines (stay on topic, no personal attacks, etc.) you’ll be fine.

    Like

  26. Wow so much anger. To me it is a very simple matter when it comes to legislating morality. If you force people to behave a certain way by rule of law will it make everyone a Christian? Obviously the answer is no. Let gays get married and ‘judge not lest ye be judged’. The one moral issue where this gets understandably sticky is abortion. Everyone hates abortion, those on the left feel the way to reduce abortion is through better sex education and birth control. While those on the right simply think you should make it illegal. Educate the people then let them find their own way. Whatever your stance surely you can see the benefit of caring even more for the baby who is fully in the world than the one still in the womb. Yet is seems to all of us on the left that those of you on the right want nothing to do with babies and young people only fetuses. I want to continue but having read most of the posts above I know it wont accomplish anything. Just please lets all try to remember if their is one trait Jesus is known for it is kindness. WWJD

    Like

    1. Wow so much anger.

      Yeah, the “Christian” Left is an angry bunch.

      To me it is a very simple matter when it comes to legislating morality. If you force people to behave a certain way by rule of law will it make everyone a Christian? Obviously the answer is no.

      That is illogical on several levels. All legislation is someone’s morality. Using your logic, murder should be legal because otherwise we are legislating morality.

      No one is claiming that this will make people Christians, but it is the God-ordained role of gov’t to reward good and punish evil. If you love your neighbors you will protect them.

      Let gays get married and ‘judge not lest ye be judged’.

      But you just judged, which is hypocrisy. They can never really be married, because “same-sex marriage” is an oxymoron, like a square circle. Here are 300 examples of the LGBTQX agenda at work — large and small — http://englishmanif.blogspot.com/2014/07/300-articles-you-have-to-read-to.html

      Also see what government recognition of “same-sex marriage” did in Massachussetts — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX55HUPFSU&feature=youtu.be

      The one moral issue where this gets understandably sticky is abortion. Everyone hates abortion, those on the left feel the way to reduce abortion is through better sex education and birth control.

      No, not everyone hates abortion. The Left champions it. They want MORE of it. Democrats are officially pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Why? Because they want taxpayer-funded abortions, laws requiring all health care plans to cover abortions, and no restrictions on anything, including “partial-birth abortion” (aka infanticide), late term abortions, gender-selection abortions, parental notification, etc.

      From their platform (http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform ): “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

      While those on the right simply think you should make it illegal.

      Yes, because it deliberately kills innocent human beings.

      Educate the people then let them find their own way.

      That ignores the human being killed in abortion. What about letting the child find her way?

      Whatever your stance surely you can see the benefit of caring even more for the baby who is fully in the world than the one still in the womb.

      That is a deadly equivocation and false analogy. The human being is your neighbor regardless of her location. You should defend her from being crushed and dismembered whether she is in the womb or outside it.

      Yet is seems to all of us on the left that those of you on the right want nothing to do with babies and young people only fetuses.

      Yeah, it seems like that because you live in an echo chamber where you repeat fallacies like that ad nauseum and want to believe those convenient lies. It makes you think you are actually doing something to help when in fact you are doing NOTHING to prevent this and this.

      You can speak against moral evils all day, every day without being obligated to care for all the victims. If mothers were killing toddlers for the same reasons they give for abortions (money, career, love live, pressure from boyfriends / parents, etc.) would you stay quiet? Would you lodge the same criticism at those who spoke against toddler-cide without adopting all the children? Hopefully not. The question is whether the unborn are human beings. They are. At least that’s what all the embryology textbooks say. Just because they are smaller, more dependent and in a unique environment (formerly synonymous with a safe place) doesn’t mean their lives aren’t worthy of protection.

      Having said that, countless pro-lifers help women and children with their own time and money.

      And remember that asking the government to take money by force from others to supposedly help the poor does not qualify as charity on your part.

      We aren’t anti-women. Pregnancy centers — staffed mostly with female employees and volunteers — typically offer post-abortion trauma counseling.

      I want to continue but having read most of the posts above I know it wont accomplish anything. Just please lets all try to remember if their is one trait Jesus is known for it is kindness. WWJD

      Abortion is the opposite of kindness, and you vote for people who want more of it.

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  27. I guess I would say that I think you are misguided in your focus on worrying about others people’s sin rather than their welfare. Perhaps if we all sought to feed, house, educate and meaningfully employ those who are struggling, many of the evils of the world would be greatly reduced. Evils such as greed have widespread ramifications – one person’s greed can affect the welfare of many whereas concerns about personal sexual ethics would really only impact the people directly involved and are, therefore, not as significant. (I also do not hold that these things are sinful or definitive of a person’s entire character) My two cents

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    1. Hi Jennifer,

      I guess I would say that I think you are misguided in your focus on worrying about others people’s sin rather than their welfare.

      Seems hypocritical of you to worry more about my “sin” than about other people’s welfare.

      Also, you haven’t demonstrated that I’m not concerned about my welfare. Those holding the views of the “Christian” Left are not saved, so what could be of more concern about their welfare then warning them of an eternity in Hell? Their fake Jesus won’t save them.

      Perhaps if we all sought to feed, house, educate and meaningfully employ those who are struggling, many of the evils of the world would be greatly reduced.

      “We” (on the Right) are doing just that. But Leftists keep getting in the way.

      This and this are evils of the world. Do you think it should be legal?

      Evils such as greed have widespread ramifications – one person’s greed can affect the welfare of many whereas concerns about personal sexual ethics would really only impact the people directly involved and are, therefore, not as significant. (I also do not hold that these things are sinful or definitive of a person’s entire character) My two cents

      So how are you going to cure greed? The “Christian” Left answer is to take money from others at the point of a gun, which has no biblical basis.

      You are wildly mistaken about the impact of sexual sins.

      Here are 300 examples of the LGBTQX agenda at work — large and small — http://englishmanif.blogspot.com/2014/07/300-articles-you-have-to-read-to.html

      Also see what government recognition of “same-sex marriage” did in Massachussetts — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZX55HUPFSU&feature=youtu.be

      If you really love people you’ll warn them that the gay lifestyle is a coin flip away from getting HIV. From — http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/09/25/behind-the-increase-in-hiv-infections-among-gay-and-bisexual-men/ — “Gay and bisexual men represent an estimated 2% of the U.S. population but more than half of all people living with HIV and 66% of new HIV infections. They are the only population group in the United States for which HIV infections are rising. Projections have shown that if current trends continue, half of all gay and bisexual men will be HIV-positive by age 50.”

      Also, sexual sins lead to murder of the unborn.

      Like

      1. Today’s herd has many sheep and a few goats, as to be expected. I guess I’d like to tackle (expose?) some of those links. The one about Massachusetts turns out to be a minor traffic accident the victim thinks was “aimed” at him and scuffed his bumper. He claimed a “back injury” as an excuse not to speak. (My POV, I’ve seen this so many times. I used to be an auto mechanic and if there’s no damage on a car other than a rubber mark, it just is not going to damage the contents.) He’s a sheep all right… 😉 If I were to speculate (and others here do, so why not?) I think he was expecting to speak to a sympathetic crowd and wanted to back out when he found out there’d be lots of vocal opposition. A lot of the political jujuu on the Right is to keep people taking among groups of themselves so they think “everybody” agrees with them. And if everybody they are steered to meet does agree (by design among the political class) this works very well so long as it doesn’t come in contact with large numbers of the other POV.

        Example: Mitt really was surprised, poor guy. His “people” had insulated him against the existence of another large opposition, at the highest level. If it can happen to him, don’t think it can’t happen to you…

        The link on *LGBT… matters is from the POV of someone who believes the scare tactics long used to discourage non-standard folk from living their own lives. Mostly goats here.

        Yes, the rate of HIV is higher in gay men (not lesbians, though, I guess God loves them Ok?) but the overall rate of infection is now dramatically lower than before plus the infection can be controlled and a person live a normal life – just like a heterosexual person with herpes – with a little common sense. It’s rather like the Ebola scare. Yes Ebola is a horrid disease in itself but given the vast population of Africa, hardly anyone actually HAS it. (Which is why NOW is the time to stop it.) same with HIV in the US. Fewer and fewer people get it, even though more and more are “coming out”. Like Ebola, it’s fairly hard to contract. Lots of sheep and goats but the goats here baa louder. 😉

        Herpes is a slow killer that destroys lives and is sexually transmitted, primarily among non-gay people. Does this mean herpes is God’s judgement on straight people? I know a lovely woman, my 2nd husband’s Ex, straight, got herpes and has had to have two organ transplants to save her… we hope.

        What about the many cases of straight women whose husbands are pretending to be straight (known here as “cured”) and get HIV because they are faithful, dutiful Biblical wives? What is God saying to them? “You followed My rules but tough luck, honey ” ?

        *LGBT… initials salad… (No, I can’t remember either… they keep adding to it.) There doesn’t seem to be a good category name yet. “Sexually non-standard” maybe, because it includes people who act and feel hetero but cannot abide the “dress code” and other societal markers devised by Man. I fall in there. I had 7 kids by perfectly normal means with men I loved and married. I dress like a construction worker or a rocker – boots, cap, jeans and a T. Not as “rebellion” but because I really loath the fiddly bits most women so enjoy. To me it’a barrier to getting work done. I have been a secretary and an auto mechanic.- hated the former and still keep all my tools oiled and ready, just in case. It wasn’t a “choice”. Being “a lady” would have been an imposition on my soul. Since God made my soul, who are YOU to tell me what to do with it? Think about that a bit – that’s really all I ask.

        Like

  28. I do not believe the Bible should be used for political gain or war. Allowing people to go hungry and with out a home… is no justice for that when there are so many homes that hasn’t been lived in for years, and I know there’s away to feed them since elections cost between millions to billions of dollars. Plus it’s hard to find work when you wear the same clothes everyday, that doesn’t look good on the company since everything’s about presentation. Birth Control… well… the Bible does state the woman’s punishment and the man’s punishment. Yes the Bible states the Lord’s disproval for gay’s… but the Bible also states to not judge others and that statement doesn’t only go for gay’s. I am thinking God’s got that whole judging thing covered since we don’t even understand our planet, and what’s all in it. There is tribes out there that don’t even know we have a system or use money, and they are still pulling strong. So you have to ask yourself… what are we doing wrong? We have so much intelligence, and also a heart… we could do amazing things. But we don’t use it like we should, and we need to. Calling each other terrible names, and while quoting out of the Bible is just completely wrong. Woman should get paid same as man because all men are not willing to step up to the plant when creating babies, and not all men are loving to their wife and or children so mothers that run have no one to turn to but a job and a shelter… so they are starting from ground 0 as an adult. I think daycares should be cheaper for single mothers and single fathers since their ex-partner lacks on their end as being a parent, and have cops or a cop randomly stop by at the daycares since people snap. We have children snapping on parents or parents snapping on their children, and it usually end’s in death. So psychology should be easier to access with a cheaper plan.

    Like

    1. I do not believe the Bible should be used for political gain or war.

      Then you’ll want to avoid the “Christian” Left!

      Allowing people to go hungry and with out a home… is no justice for that when there are so many homes that hasn’t been lived in for years, and I know there’s away to feed them since elections cost between millions to billions of dollars.

      Not sure what you are talking about. We tens of millions of people on food stamps and more.

      Yes the Bible states the Lord’s disproval for gay’s… but the Bible also states to not judge others and that statement doesn’t only go for gay’s.

      So why are you judging everyone else? Glad you agree that LGBTQX behavior is a sin. Gays have 40+ times higher rates of Syphilis and HIV, partly because 62% of men who know they are HIV-positive have unprotected sex with men — http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/new-cdc-study-62-of-men-who-know-they-are-hiv-positive-have-unprotected-sex-with-men/ . Meditate on that for a moment. How evil and vile do you have to be to knowingly risk infecting others with a deadly disease, just because you don’t want to wear a condom when having sex? That is one of the most profoundly selfish acts imaginable, yet the mainstream media and “comprehensive sex education” classes never tell you about these things.

      I am thinking God’s got that whole judging thing covered since we don’t even understand our planet, and what’s all in it.

      So why are you here judging?

      So you have to ask yourself… what are we doing wrong? We have so much intelligence, and also a heart… we could do amazing things.

      It is all in the Bible: Original sin. The solution: Jesus. But that’s not what the “Christian” Left teaches.

      Woman should get paid same as man because all men are not willing to step up to the plant when creating babies,

      I encourage you to read this blog often to expand your media horizons. You have been deliberately lied to by those who say women are paid less than men for doing the same work. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_toolbar

      How many times have you heard that “women are paid 77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men”? Barack Obama said it during his last campaign. Women’s groups say it every April 9, which is Equal Pay Day. In preparation for Labor Day, a group protesting outside Macy’s this week repeated it, too, holding up signs and sending out press releases saying “women make $.77 to every dollar men make on the job.” I’ve heard the line enough times that I feel the need to set the record straight: It’s not true.
      The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” The latter gives the impression that a man and a woman standing next to each other doing the same job for the same number of hours get paid different salaries. That’s not at all the case. “Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35.

      I think daycares should be cheaper for single mothers and single fathers since their ex-partner lacks on their end as being a parent,

      You are very “generous” with other people’s money!

      Like

      1. When I was a kid we had just had the scare of our national lives – twice! (WWI and WWII)
        We learned, the hard way and at the cost of so very many young lives, that the only strong (enough) nation is the one that respects ALL its people. The one that inspires ALL its people to give and give and put their shoulders to the wheel and give some more.

        It was a glorious time, if hard. I remember Mom and Dad discussing the ration points, the coupons and funny little cardboard “coins” in blue and red, and whether the government would allot them tires before the old ones gave out. Mom saved animal fats in a big can in the fridge to give to the butcher so it could be turned in to make soap for “our boys” – several of whom were Mom’s brothers. (Dad was an only child and working in the vital aluminum industry, so exempted from service, but he adored his brothers-in-law and worried about them constantly. As repayment, he grew a huge garden so his family would not be a burden on the War Effort.) These unselfish folk were part of the “Greatest Generation”, as their parents before them had really also been.

        Now we’ve lost all that, seemingly within the last 20 years. I cannot convey how terribly sad it makes me.

        Not everything was 100% rosy of course. As an Evangelical kid I was aware that some of my classmates in Sunday School thought the ones who’d left to attend the Lutheran Sunday School in town had “gone straight to Hell”. (In reality, their parents got tired of driving them clear out in the boonies and wanted them to go closer to home.) I looked in the Bible and could not find that part! I became painfully aware that humans enjoy dividing themselves when they no longer see a need for their neighbors It’s a sort of petty-minded sport with us. A way to fool ourselves we are better than others. Then along comes another real threat and we discover our neighbor’s uses again. In this we are ALL hypocrites.

        There are no Catholics, Lutherans, Leftists or Rightists in the Bible. Should there be so much store set in their divisive theories here? I don’t believe it. According to Christ God said “in my house there are many mansions” and St Paul said it was wrong to set “stumbling blocks” in the way of new Christians’ faith by enforcing the details of Judaism on them. (This is why you can wear poly-cotton-wool shirts, and not get your manhood trimmed, BTW.) Christ warned his flocks contained diverse sheep. I think this is a set of warnings to those who would weaken us with divisions.

        We are all complicit in weakening our nation. We are all complicit in setting “stumbling blocks”. We are all sinners and falling short every single day.

        God is Not Amused.

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      2. Hi Moreach,

        Thanks for sharing that. I think I agree with much of it but am unsure of your conclusion. God gave us guidance on how to handle disputable matters (e.g., Romans 14 and others), so there are certainly things we shouldn’t divide over.

        But He also made clear that some things make a difference between Christian and non-Christian. For example, Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

        That’s pretty clear. And when people like Currie and Sandlin describe “the Gospel” it is wildly different than what Paul taught. Therefore, dividing from them is a moral good.

        Like

      3. But was Paul “God”? He wasn’t the Christ and quite a few of his teachings are against Biblical writ. I find myself worried about Paul, sometimes… I think he did too much of his own thinking. Peter does not seem to have fully trusted him…

        Like

      4. Please read this very carefully: 2 Peter 3:14–16 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

        Did you see how Peter referred to Paul’s writings as scripture? Seems like he trusted Paul to me.

        And it is all the word of God. There are no good reasons to consider Luke any more inspired than anything Paul wrote. His teachings don’t disagree with biblical writ, they are biblical writ!

        Like

  29. Happened to see this gem when emptying the sp*m filter:

    “Gutless comment deleting? You’re a hypocrite! You deleted some of my most damning comments, all because they had one or two little cuss words.

    Stop acting like a wounded child and face the opposition like a man.”

    Indeed. I let this anti-Christian say all sorts of things, but he violated the commenting guidelines repeatedly, including saying f*ck. What a classy Leftist “Christian.”

    The thread above was clear in that this guy was making things up as he went along. Maybe if the “Christian” Left site lets me comment there I’ll reconsider his banning . . .

    Like

    1. Your garbage writings will never be allowed on TCL page, I can personally guarantee that. You are insane. You make a mockery of Jesus’ liberal teachings. You need psychiatric help.

      Like

      1. Wow, I’m really feeling the “Christian” Left love and tolerance here! Insane? That’s the best you’ve got? Once again, a Leftist can’t address the facts, logic and Biblical views so they just use personal attacks. Oh, the hypocrisy!

        Here’s what makes a mockery of Jesus’ teachings: The “Christian” Left.

        They deny his divinity
        They deny that He is the only way to salvation. They mock the cross.
        They are pro-abortion and support this and this
        They teach the opposite of him on human sexuality. Churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views to the world. It shows who their real father is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/churchgoers-who-support-same-sex-marriage-are-identical-to-the-world/
        They try to force others to “give” in their name.
        More!

        1 John 2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

        Like

    2. I see you have been accosted by one of the “rude words are Ok because everyone uses them” crowd. I’m afraid that’s not confined to people on “the Left”. A sad thing about the opening of the internet to “kids” is that they are not yet over being proud of swearing. Nor do they quite realize that a blog or chat room or anyplace with a moderator belongs in large part to its creator, just like a newspaper or living room would. Please, however, resist the temptation to blame it on them being Leftist. I’ve been roundly cursed at* by all kinds of people from all spectra of life. It shows a crude mental process, too lazy to come up with a better word. Trust me, even business executives have been known to use the “f-bomb”. Nixon is a good example of someone who knew better but had too little self-control.

      They are your rules. They are your rules to make, enforce, and stand by. If someone doesn’t have the capacity to hold their tongue (or keys) too bad for them. They are playing in your house.

      *I like debate… I put my head up for the hammer… LOL

      Like

  30. The author of the blog says we have a “special relationship.” We don’t. We have no relationship. It is concerning to me that he believes we have any relationship. At one point, years ago, he left comments on my blog. I blocked him for violating my comment policy (http://tinyurl.com/kq3sc8p). Since then he has started a blog where for years he has obsessively written about my activities – including my family. I would encourage people not to engage him. He feeds off the attention. My expectation is that this comment will only provoke him further but if folks stop leaving him comments it will take his oxygen away. Traffic to his blog is only maintained by making personal attacks against people like me. It is not possible to argue with one who believes that they alone understand the mind of God.

    Rev. Chuck Currie

    Like

    1. Hi Chuck,

      Thanks for stopping by.

      The author of the blog says we have a “special relationship.” We don’t. We have no relationship.

      As Homer Simpson would say, “In case you couldn’t tell, I was being sarcastic.”

      I blocked him for violating my comment policy (http://tinyurl.com/kq3sc8p).

      That is a lie. I didn’t violate his policy. But the bigger lie when was I pointed out that he deleted my comment refuting his point, he LIED and said it was homophobic, misogynistic, racist, etc. I called him on his lie and asked him to simply post my original comment as his “proof.” (Every blogger knows you get emails when people comment and there is a “trash” area for deleted comments.) So did Chuck ever post the evidence? Of course not, because it didn’t exist.

      He lied then and he is lying now. It is his native language.

      Since then he has started a blog where for years he has obsessively written about my activities – including my family.

      You bragged, in public, about taking your 6 yr. olds to gay pride parades, where things like this go on — http://americansfortruth.com/2014/07/31/san-francisco-after-the-nudity-ban-aftah-exposes-nudity-filled-up-your-alley-street-fair/ .

      I merely noted that you had engaged in this despicable behavior that you admitted to in public — http://wolfsheep2.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/a-portrait-of-perversity/ . You lie when you pretend that I went after them. I have compassion for them.

      I would encourage people not to engage him. He feeds off the attention.

      Read the comment thread. These are your minions, Chuck.

      Traffic to his blog is only maintained by making personal attacks against people like me. It is not possible to argue with one who believes that they alone understand the mind of God.

      That’s funny, because you think you know the mind of God.

      You can argue with me all you like. But use scripture, in context.

      You are a vile man, Chuck Currie. You actually encourage people to commit suicide! You are a pro-abortion extremist. You engage in race-baiting and further divide people. You preach a false Jesus. You deny the physical resurrection. You deny Jesus’ deity. You mock the Bible, saying the Gospel of John (and more) doesn’t belong there. You call the authors of the Bible liars, but I know who the real liar is. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/should-you-believe-the-authors-of-the-bible-or-the-christians-who-claim-the-writers-were-blasphemous-pathological-liars/ . You say that Jesus is not the only way to salvation, even though the Bible teaches that over 100 times! If you really love people you’ll warn them that the gay lifestyle is a coin flip away from getting HIV, but you encourage them! From — http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/09/25/behind-the-increase-in-hiv-infections-among-gay-and-bisexual-men/ — “Gay and bisexual men represent an estimated 2% of the U.S. population but more than half of all people living with HIV and 66% of new HIV infections. They are the only population group in the United States for which HIV infections are rising. Projections have shown that if current trends continue, half of all gay and bisexual men will be HIV-positive by age 50.”

      I alternate between feeling sorry for your followers and knowing that they are getting what they want — i.e., having their ears tickled. 2 Timothy 4:3–4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

      I sincerely pray, to the real God, that one day you will bring him glory by repenting of your lies and by trusting in the real Jesus.

      Thanks for visiting and commenting! You are welcome back anytime.

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    2. Since then he has started a blog where for years he has obsessively written about my activities

      Refuting false teachers is a moral good. Chuck Currie is a false teacher. Therefore, refuting him is a moral good. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-importance-of-sound-doctrine/

      I don’t care about his “activities” if they aren’t about Jesus and about Chuck posing as a Christian. Don’t be jealous, but I address other false teachers as well. I just highlight you because you are so cartoonishly extreme and because I know your true character.

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  31. Whoa! That’s what you’re going to say on Judgment Day? Matthew 7:21-23 You may recall that the Jews that arranged for Jesus’ execution believed they were RIGHT. Their position was bolstered by Jesus’ time spent with the unsavory people in their communities – prostitutes, tax collectors and lepers. Jesus challenged the religious leaders to “love their neighbor as themselves” and went on to describe “neighbor” as “one who showed mercy.” I don’t see any of those characteristics demonstrated in your posts.

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    1. Not sure of your point. If you think I’m wrong just because I think I’m right then by your own logic you are wrong.

      Re. unsavory people: I do lots of prison ministry. One of my most trusted friends is an ex-offender felon. I have worshiped with and encouraged countless killers, drug dealers, thieves, etc. I share the Gospel with anyone. I’ve spent lots of time with false teachers and fake Christians in church. I’ve done extensive pregnancy center ministry and helped and encouraged people who have had abortions and sex out of wedlock. And on and on.

      Got any more prejudiced comments from Stereotype Land (TM) that you’d like to share? 🙂

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  32. Good Morning Neil, I’ve been thinking about you since yesterday. A thought came to my mind. What if I could say to Neil, “Look, we obviously see many things very differently, but the bottom line is that we are STILL Brothers in Christ. Why don’t we just agree to disagree on some things and accept one another for who we are and that we are both Christians.”

    I then thought, “Neil will never accept that.” But who knows? Maybe I’m wrong about that.

    I have been a Christian all my life. I was baptized as a baby, raised in the Lutheran Church, confirmed in the Lutheran Church (after 3 years of classes), I went to church and Sunday School until I was 16, I was baptized again as an adult (this time by conscious choice) with full submersion, and I have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit my entire life. Jesus is my best and oldest friend and I talk to him every single day without fail.

    What troubles me is that despite all of this you might still think “I’m going to hell,” because I don’t believe exactly as you do regarding certain topics.

    Here’s my take on Hell. It contains my overall view on Theology as well (the part about the view of the Disciples of Christ). See what you think. I’m interested in your feedback on what I have said here and the article.

    http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/tcl-blog/sending-over-23-of-the-world-to-hell

    Charles

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    1. I still attend church although much more infrequently. I’ve read and studied the Bible my entire life and I associate with fellow believers every day. I don’t belong to any given denomination although I favor the Episcopal Church for services.

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      1. Charles Toy,

        I would suggest that you avoid the Episcopal Church, because as a denomination they are apostate and heretical. They support socialism, the social gospel, abortion, same-sex fake marriage, homosexuality in general, retain bishops and other leaders who deny the deity of Christ and the virgin birth, they promote the religion of Freemasonry, as well as the feminist agenda. I could go on, but I think you get the drift.

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      2. Just for my clarification, are you saying you run the Christian Left FB page but that you don’t have a church membership and/or don’t worship frequently? If so, that seems odd.

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      3. Glenn,

        I support Social Democracy and a mixed economy, which “opposes the excesses of capitalism such as inequality, poverty, and oppression of various groups, while rejecting both a totally free market or a fully planned economy. Common social democratic policies include advocacy of universal social rights to attain universally accessible public services such as education, health care, workers’ compensation, and other services, including child care and care for the elderly. Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers.”

        I believe homosexuals were born that way and that it is not a sin for them to live in committed relationships. I believe in marriage equality.

        With regard to abortion I believe personhood begins with the first breath outside the womb. For more:

        http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/tcl-blog/the-bible-tells-us-when-a-fetus-becomes-a-living-being

        I believe in the divinity of Christ and I believe all authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to him, just like he said. I don’t claim to understand “the Trinity,” and I don’t think anyone understands it. It’s a profound mystery.

        I personally believe in the virgin birth but I don’t think it’s a required belief to be a real Christian.

        I support Feminism and I think Jesus was the first Feminist. I don’t like some of the more radical feminist doctrines but I believe in full equality for women in every area.

        I don’t like Freemasonry much. George Bush Sr. is a 33rd Degree Mason. His son “W” was a member of Skull & Bones at Yale. It’s creepy in my opinion.

        I’m a big fan of the Social Gospel and I don’t see how a person can read the Bible and not be.

        There you have it. I’m sure in your eyes I’m “going to hell” now. Maybe not. Maybe I’m wrong about you in that regard. I hope so. I know for a fact I’m going to Heaven. I have full faith in the promise Jesus made me.

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      4. I believe homosexuals were born that way and that it is not a sin for them to live in committed relationships. I believe in marriage equality.

        That is anti-science and even anti-what many gay people say. http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/19/nobody-is-born-that-way-gay-historians-say/

        And just ask the feminists if heterosexual women can convert to Lesbianism. That’s one of their top goals! http://theothermccain.com/2014/10/03/because-this-never-happens-right/

        They were not born that way, and even if they were, sexual preferences do not warrant special civil rights. Skin color is morally neutral but sexual behavior is not. The facts are that not only is sexual orientation fluid, but many instances of change occur without any therapy or intervention. For example, a study from the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that 68% of 15 year-olds with same-sex attraction had opposite-sex attraction (OSA) by the age of 21. Again, these changes occurred spontaneously.” http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2013/12/got-same-sex-attraction-things-can-change.html

        And just ask the feminists if you can convert to Lesbianism. That’s one of their top goals!

        They were not “born that way.” That is anti-science. And if they were and it could be detected in utero – or even if any predispositions could be detected — they’d quickly be aborted out of existence. I assure you that all the hetero parents who have been cowed into acceptance mode wouldn’t hesitate to kill their allegedly homosexual kids, considering how they already destroy their unborn children for so many other selfish reasons (wrong sex, getting in the way of love life / career / education, cleft palate, Down Syndrome, just plain unwanted, etc.).

        And for you to insist that they are born that way is truly homophobic. You’re saying it isn’t a completely positive lifestyle for someone to consider switching to! Seems kinda hateful.

        I’m surprised at how dismissive pro-gay groups are of all the “trans” people in the LGBTQ alphabet soup. After all, if your “born that way” argument, as fallacious as it is, provides your foundation, then wouldn’t that be a clear indication that the “trans” people are wrong to try and change or to pretend they are something they are not?

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      5. “Marriage equality” is a fallacious term. There is nothing unequal about only recognizing marriage between a man and a woman. It is the only logical position to take.

        “Marriage equality” is a fallacious term. Those relationships aren’t equal, as they can never produce children (as most hetero unions can) and they can never provide a mother and a father to a child (as all hetero unions can).

        Anyone holding an opposing view is either advancing the homosexual agenda or they have been fooled by it.

        Here’s why: 1. It is an oxymoron: “The same sex union of a man and a woman.” People have as much of a right to it as they do to a square circle. 2. By nature and design, homosexual couples can not produce children. 3. By nature and design, homosexual couples can never provide a mother and a father to a child, which is the obvious ideal whether you are religious or an atheist (there are no gay parents in Darwinian evolution). 4. Sexual behavior does not confer Civil Rights status.

        Note that none of those reasons involve religious arguments, even though there is nothing wrong with letting our religious views inform our political views. If people want to know what Jesus thinks on the matter I’d be glad to tell them (short version: 100% of the Bible verses relating to homosexual behavior describe it as sin in the strongest possible terms, 100% of the verses addressing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman, 100% of the verses addressing parenting involve one man and one woman, and 0% of the verses refer to homosexual behavior in positive or even benign terms).

        I anticipate several canards when addressing this topic, such as the “but they love each other” bit. Those arguments come from ignorance or disingenuousness. After all, no one — including all the Christians I know — is saying they can’t have relationships. Hey, they can go to any number of apostate churches and get “married.” The question is whether we want or need the government to regulate their relationships. We don’t.

        What about hospital visitation, estate issues, etc.? They can be solved without changing the definition of marriage to “a union of any combination of things that we decide it to be.” For example, estate taxes are ghoulish and should be abandoned for everyone, not just gays (do you really want the gov’t to profit from your death?).

        Children of same-sex couples do less well than those of married couples — http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/study-children-of-same-sex-couples-do-less-well-than-those-of-married-couples/

        With regard to abortion I believe personhood begins with the first breath outside the womb.

        That’s creepy. Bad things happen when one group decides who else is “really” a person. So a preemie 7 mos. from fertilization is a person but a full-term child in the womb is not?

        Glad you believe in the divinity of Christ. Not sure why you’d partner with Currie and Sandlin, though! They believe the opposite. Not a little different, the OPPOSITE.

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      6. Charles,

        I support Social Democracy and a mixed economy, which “opposes the excesses of capitalism such as inequality, poverty, and oppression of various groups, while rejecting both a totally free market or a fully planned economy.

        The problem here is the definition of “capitalism.” Crony capitalism is an abuse to the ideology, which Neil has pointed out. But there is no such thing in capitalism as “inequality.” That is a socialist lie. There is really no such thing as complete “equality,” because no one is equal in intellect, physical abilities, learning ability, or even the desire for labor. To suggest that everyone must be made equal is foolish. Conservative capitalism says everyone has an equal opportunity to aspire to what they desire to the best of their personal abilities. What you call “social democracy” says we have to take from those who have reached goals based on their abilities and give it to those who refuse to perform to their abilities.

        Common social democratic policies include advocacy of universal social rights to attain universally accessible public services such as education, health care, workers’ compensation, and other services, including child care and care for the elderly.

        I know of no conservative who wants to deny anyone any rights. What we are against are special rights developed for certain classes of people. Should every one have public education if they desire it? Yes. Should they be FORCED into public education as the socialists want, rather than allowing private or homeschooled eduction? NO. Should everyone have access to higher education? Yes, if that access doesn’t require someone else to pay for it. Should everyone have access to basic health care? Yes, and in the USA everyone does indeed have that access. Should they have access to non-essential health care such as contraception, elective surgery for various bodily enhancements or mutilation to look like a person of the opposite sex? YES —IF they pay for it and do not demand others to pay for it. Should the government be in charge of health care? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Where that has happened routine health care takes very long waits, and the government gets to decide what procedures you are worthy of. “Worker’s Compensation”? I’m assuming you are referring to compensating those injured on the job, so I know of no conservative who would deny that. Child care? If you can pay for it, fine, but don’t ask for federal tax dollars. If a state or local entity wants to pay, that doesn’t affect what the federal Constitution allows. However, the majority of child care is used because both parents want to work so as to raise their standard of living rather than concentrate on raising their children. Children should never be set aside just so the parents can live in million-dollar homes, have luxury cars, boats, etc. The majority of those with both parents in the workplace have no reason to be their except selfishness. Those of that ilk should not have anyone else paying for their child care. Those single parents who need help should get it.

        As for the elderly, first and foremost their families should take care of them. Only when medical necessity precludes it should financial assistance be given. Most people nowadays don’t want their elderly parents to live with them and just shove them into assisted living using government dollars to supplement.

        Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers.”

        Having been very much involved in union disputes, I find the necessity for unions nowadays is usually lacking, and should never be allowed in the public sector. Unions are the reasons so many businesses have moved overseas, because of the outrageous demands of the unions. Most of the time the unions protect the incompetent, the lazy, and those who do illegal acts. NO ONE should have to be a member of a union to be employed. That is extortion.

        I believe homosexuals were born that way and that it is not a sin for them to live in committed relationships. I believe in marriage equality.

        Believing they were born that way doesn’t alter the fact that there is no evidence for such. God says it is a sin to practice homosexual behavior. I agree with God. And it is not “marriage equality” to allow fake marriage; they have the same equal right to marry someone of the opposite sex as everyone else does. What they want is not equality but special rights to redefine what marriage is and then force everyone to accept it or be punished.

        With regard to abortion I believe personhood begins with the first breath outside the womb.

        You have decided to come up with the idea of “personhood” as a separate thing from “human.” It is just such a fallacy which leads people to fight for “personhood” for chimpanzees. The baby is a human from conception. Arbitrarily deciding when they are actual persons is right up there with the Nazis who claimed Jews weren’t persons. You are indeed for the murder of the unborn just because they haven’t come out of the womb yet.

        I believe in the divinity of Christ and I believe all authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to him, just like he said. I don’t claim to understand “the Trinity,” and I don’t think anyone understands it. It’s a profound mystery. I personally believe in the virgin birth but I don’t think it’s a required belief to be a real Christian

        We agree there.

        I support Feminism and I think Jesus was the first Feminist. I don’t like some of the more radical feminist doctrines but I believe in full equality for women in every area.

        You may believe this but it is a lie. Jesus was not a feminist by any means of the word. Every conservative I know believes in the full equality of women with men, but there are roles God has given to men which are not for women. Also, there really are roles women should not be part of in a civilized society – such as going into combat.

        I’m a big fan of the Social Gospel and I don’t see how a person can read the Bible and not be.

        I don’t see how a person can read the Bible and believe in the social gospel.

        And no, I don’t think you are going to hell for your beliefs as long as you have indeed placed your faith in Christ as your savior. It isn’t even necessary to understand the Trinity or the Virgin birth – BUT you can’t preach against those non-negotiable doctrines and still claim the name of Christ. You can’t teach that there is more than one way of salvation and still claim the name of Christ. Etc.

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      7. Uh, hate to be a buzzkill, but Matthew 18 is about church discipline, not about how many people need to be present for Jesus to be there. If you are authentically worshiping Jesus, He doesn’t leave when your wife leaves the room and then return when she comes back ;-).

        I think the Bible is clear that we should regularly gather with other believers outside our own family.

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      8. Neil, I worship every single day. My wife and I are a church of two much of the time. “Wherever two or more …..”

        Two being together is not a problem, but don’t misuse the passage to support it. The passage is in reference to church discipline and those who are exercising it.

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    2. Hi Charles,

      Thanks for the reasoned tone and for coming back. I appreciate that. I don’t rush to call someone a brother-in-Christ. I have many good friends who are non-believers, so I don’t get spooked if people don’t believe as I do. Of course I try to share the Gospel with them.

      I scanned your link. A couple thoughts. I grew up in the Disciples of Christ Church and went to one as adult until I became a believer and then left soon thereafter. They are a train wreck of bad theology and politics-disguised-as-religion and I grieve for family members that to there.

      I sort of agree with you on the judging piece, but keep in mind that it is just as judgmental to say someone is saved as to say they aren’t. People go into full freak-out mode if you point out that if Gandhi didn’t change his beliefs before he died then he is likely in Hell, but they don’t realize the judgments they make when they insist he is in heaven. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-is-gandhi/ I’m not saying you hold that position on Gandhi, I just offer that as clarification. I’m glad you consider me to be a Christian, but just for the record you are judging me as being “in,” which is just as judgmental as judging me as being “out.”

      I wouldn’t sit in judgment of Hell and say the Bible can’t be right because that would mean “too many” people go there. God is perfectly just. Anyone in Hell will belong there. More specifically, we all belong there, myself included, but He has saved some through his grace and mercy.

      What specific quantity of people goes to Hell? Well, Jesus did say the road there was wide, so it wouldn’t surprise me if most went there. But I don’t make estimates on that. I just go by what He says in his word.

      I don’t think you are going to Hell because we disagree on some topics. We could charitably debate infant baptism, how to do communion, church music, etc., all day long and that wouldn’t make me question your salvation.

      But if you deny deity of Christ, as Currie and Sandlin explicitly do, then I’d wager you are on your way to Hell. If you deny that Jesus is the only way to salvation as they both do, then I’d say the same thing.

      I usually go with crystal clear topics to see where people are theologically. Since there are over 100 passages teaching that Jesus is the only way to salvation (you can only miss them if you try!) and since that is an essential of the faith, I find it a great place to start. Chuck Currie, for example, did an entire sermon on why John 14:6 was wrong (he didn’t know about the other 100+ passages!). He dismissed the Gospel of John as not belonging in the Bible, which means he thinks the author was a liar and that the early church was wrong for considering it scripture. But if you dismiss such a clear and important teaching, why claim the name of Christ at all? Just go full Gandhi and be a pluralist.

      Remember, there is no middle ground. Either Jesus is the only way or He isn’t. I and other Christians are right, or Chuck & Co. are right.

      Here’s another piece I did on where we probably differ greatly and irreconcilably: http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/opposites-3/

      All the best.

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    3. One last thought on “the big topics.” I believe that “Evolution” is the process by which God created us. I think he jumped in directly at a few stages when “quantum leaps” occurred, like when our brains grew exponentially almost over night in the distant past.

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      1. One last thought on “the big topics.” I believe that “Evolution” is the process by which God created us. I think he jumped in directly at a few stages when “quantum leaps” occurred, like when our brains grew exponentially almost over night in the distant past.

        You believing a lie doesn’t make it so. There is absolutely NO scientific evidence for evolution — none. The entire theory is based on speculation, assumption, and assertions. No facts. The Bible says God created everything in the universe in six days. Either the Bible is true or evolutionism is true. Evolutionism was developed to do away with God.

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      2. “Evolutionism” is what doesn’t exist – except to conspiracy theorists. The autocorrect doesn’t even recognize it as a word. And, you KNOW how long GOD’s day are? Are you magical, an angel?

        Let’s see… do you believe in the Universe and that in our solar system Mercury (planet) exists? On Mercury the days are almost 176 of our days long. So does God use Earth days, Mercury days, or maybe Jupiter days (under 10 hours) for creating? Why would He limit Himself when He has made almost infinite numbers of planets and possible “days”? He wouldn’t. Therefore “seven days” is a time period beyond our frail human understanding.

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      3. “Evolutionism” is a word that does indeed exist – I’ve read it many, many publications. It is used to demonstrate that evolution is really a religion. No facts support it, yet people put all their faith in it.

        God is the Creator. He could have created everything in one day, but he did it in six to give us a model of the 7-day week – six to work and one to rest. The word “day” in Genesis is a literal 24-hour period. If you are really interested in the truth, e-mail me. I’m not going to take over this string on a discussion of evolutionism.

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      4. Yes, and they deny Jesus every time the promote it. He couldn’t have been more clear: “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

        That debunks evolution and oxymoronic “same-sex marriage” in one passage!

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      1. I do believe the Bible is exactly as God intended. I believe understanding it and all of it’s complexities is a life long process and even then we won’t even touch the surface.

        Jesus let the thief on the cross in to heaven. He wasn’t baptized and he made no statements of creed or belief. He probably wasn’t aware of all the “rules.” That’s one of my favorite stories in the Bible.

        There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus wants everyone in Heaven. We may be surprised as to who is there when we get there. Jesus said “I have other sheep.” I believe the Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways and is not bound by our own personal dogma.

        As for me, I have decided to follow Jesus. There is no turning back.

        All The Best

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      2. By the way, I am endlessly amused by the ironic and hypocritical amount of hate and foolishness spewed on your Facebook page — you know, the one of the loving, tolerant, “progressive,” “Christian” Left. Again, quite the self-parody! I appreciate the bonus link to my site and I never mind making fake Christians squirm, and you never know when a seed will be planted (I’ve literally had a guy abandon homosexuality after visiting here regularly, among other things).

        I’m just curious if the inconsistency and hypocrisy ever bother you. You moderate me (whatever . . . I know I’ll never last long at non-Christian sites!) but you let all that hate through? And not just hate, but pettiness? Scan my comments here and you’ll never see that crap from believers.

        You might want to re-think who you associate with.

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      3. I’ve done my best to reason with you and tell you the basis of my beliefs. I can’t control what everyone says on my page. There are a lot of hurt people out there as a result of the spiritual abuse they receive at the hands of Christians. Over the last five years of running the page there have literally been hundreds of people, including atheists (who we welcome and don’t disparage), who have stated that they have returned to the faith as a result of our outreach.

        I’ll let Jesus be the judge of our work. No one else. No one.

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      4. I’ve done my best to reason with you and tell you the basis of my beliefs.

        I encourage you to re-read your comments. You didn’t really give us reasons, you just made statements. You say gays are born that way, but gave no evidence. And you completely ignored what the Bible had to say. And on and on.

        I can’t control what everyone says on my page.

        Wow. Just wow. You banned me from YOUR page but you let all that stuff go on and pretend your hands are tired?! (I’m used to it, btw, as I know Leftists hate-hate-hate it when Bible-believers annihilate their arguments and show their hypocrisy). But seriously, before commenting again, please reflect on what you said. I’m genuinely amused, not offended. But wow. Just wow.

        Over the last five years of running the page there have literally been hundreds of people, including atheists (who we welcome and don’t disparage), who have stated that they have returned to the faith as a result of our outreach.

        If they weren’t given the real Gospel — and Sandlin and Currie do NOT give the real Gospel — then those people didn’t return to “the” faith, they just turned to a different man-made faith. Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

        I’ll let Jesus be the judge of our work. No one else. No one.

        Oh, you can bank on that!

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      5. BTW, I’m no martyr, but I just shrug off the vile people at your site and hope they are made spiritually alive someday and repent and trust in Jesus. But in the mean time, I enjoy this: Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

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  33. eMatters, I have read most of the comments and this is Man’s law vs God’s law. I think we can say those two don’t mix very well with one another in a political argument. I am not judging, just stating what I see, and from what I understand from the Bible. Yes a lot of people are on food stamps, but not everyone can be approved even if they have little to no income, and other’s have been kicked off it. If the homeless get’s food stamps… then why are they asking for food? Yes there is Hud to get into apartment’s but that’s a waiting list. What are they to do till then? How am I the one judging when God said love thy neighbor? I don’t think the Lord added except if they are poor or if they are rich or if they are misguided. But I guess that’s where mans law comes in. Right? I herd many talk about how men make more then women from Demarcate follower’s to Republican follower’s. If you take a woman’s tax check and a man’s tax check that is making the same income at the same job with the same job title making the same hour’s, and you place those two paper’s together you will see man makes more then woman. You are very “generous” with other people’s money!??? I think we passed that line when we forced tax on everything then turn around and throw money on elections that ranges around millions to billions of dollar’s. I know this because Republicans and Demarcates love talking about who made more and spent more. When did money over run intelligence and passion for our system? I can answer that.. when we allowed it. I know we need both parties and if you elect the right people together, they will mingle well. it’s almost like marriage. I feel in this case both parties are in the wrong for using the Bible to tear each other apart instead of building each other.

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  34. Someone above said that Jesus was a liberal/socialist. I have always wondered if these people ever read the Bible other than for cherry-picking what they want from it to support their views. Of course the answer, as we have seen so much of in the comment string, is a resounding “NO” – they have no clue what the Bible says.

    But real Christians know that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Bible is the Word of God, and therefore anything in it can be authoritatively used as Jesus’ teaching. So then, what does the Bible have to say about what liberals teach?

    The liberal says, “Abortion is necessary and a right under the Constitution.” However, it is written, “You shall not murder.”

    The liberal says, “Homosexual behavior is just another lifestyle choice.” However, it is written that homosexual behavior is “an abomination,” “perverse,” and “unnatural.”

    The liberal says, “We need sex education in schools because the children can’t control their sexuality, so pass out the condoms.” However, it is written, “Neither the sexually immoral…nor adulterers…will inherit the kingdom of God.”

    The liberal says, “Pornography is protected by the First Amendment.” But it is written, “Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

    The liberal says, “Redistribute the wealth.” But it is written, “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

    The liberal says, “Judge not, tolerance for all.” But it is written, “Make a right judgment.”

    The liberal says, “All religions are the same.” But Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

    Was Jesus a liberal? The Word of God says absolutely not.

    Like

  35. Moreach said, “(Keep in mind that it had only recently been discovered that men had anything to do with babies,

    Really? REALLY???? The existence of the Dead Sea Scrolls testifies the OT is at least two thousand years old, and there are frequent references in the oldest parts about descendents coming “from the loins” of the father, and all that bit about Adam begetting Seth who beget Enosh, etc., etc. — but you would have us to believe that they thought women just happened to have babies — ?!?!. Plus all those pesky references in the Old and New Testament about virgins not being able to conceive naturally, which is why Jesus’ conception was miraculous, and everybody else assumed Mary had been screwing around. Not because they “didn’t know that men had anything to do with babies”, but because they knew VERY WELL that male-female sex was the ONLY way to create babies. Aside from God’s supernatural intervention, of course.

    Like

      1. Re: My use of “recently” in respect to sperm causing babies. Yeah, seems an odd thing to say from the perspective of a time in which this is such common knowledge.
        “Recently” is by nature a comparison word. In this context used as compared to the vastness of the time in which people did not yet know this fact. The Bible covers at least 10,000 years just in traceable historic matters. At some point the Jews figured this out. They ran herds and probably noticed there were no lambs without rams. Plus the fact was not obvious to all, even when Scripture was finally being written down. The Philistine matriarchal religion was one that was still based on women being the ONLY fount of life. So, “recent” is partly in re the culture of the person. Philistines, living right next door, were not encouraged to know that males were also vital. It brought their faith into question. (This is why Philistine temples had “prostitutes”. To create life as a Philistine sacrament, not to be a sex service.) The peoples of the Greek Islands were a related matriarchal religion. So yes, there was a bit of a propaganda war… “Your priestesses are really prostitutes! They give sex for offerings! We save our sperm for the important stuff, you Philistine wankers!”

        In many ways, religion hasn’t changed as much as we like to think… 😉

        Like

  36. Moreach said, ““Evolutionism” is what doesn’t exist – except to conspiracy theorists. The autocorrect doesn’t even recognize it as a word. And, you KNOW how long GOD’s day are? Are you magical, an angel?

    Let’s see… do you believe in the Universe and that in our solar system Mercury (planet) exists? On Mercury the days are almost 176 of our days long. So does God use Earth days, Mercury days, or maybe Jupiter days (under 10 hours) for creating? Why would He limit Himself when He has made almost infinite numbers of planets and possible “days”? He wouldn’t. Therefore “seven days” is a time period beyond our frail human understanding.

    Here’s a question: If “seven days” is incomprehensible, and means nothing, or can mean anything, then why would God have even included it in the Bible? Everything else in the Bible is given for our understanding and knowledge, but you would have us believe that this one phrase is somehow some super-secret special bit of knowledge that God told us, but not so that we could understand it, but just so we could be confused by it? Nonsensical.

    Why would He limit Himself when He has made almost infinite numbers of planets and possible “days”? He wouldn’t.
    Glad you have this special knowledge, not given to the rest of us mere mortals. @.@

    So when the Bible says that Jonah was in the belly of the whale for 3 days, does that mean he could have been there 3×176 earth days, because, who knows, “days” could have referred to Mercury’s days? Or, maybe he could have been in the belly of the whale for 3,000 earth years, because, after all, there could be some planet somewhere whose days are a thousand earth-years long. Why limit God? Why believe that “day” means, well, “day”, when it could mean any time period at all?!

    Except that’s complete and utter nonsense. Why use the term “day”, if it means something other than “day”? Why even use the term, if it has no definition? It would be like you asking me for a piece of cake, and I hand you a tuna-fish sandwich; you protest, saying you asked for cake, and I respond, “Well, this is what I think ‘cake’ is!” Either words have meanings, or they don’t. If they do, then we should use them according to their meaning; if not, then we can’t use them to say anything at all.

    Like

  37. The Bible is clear as clear as can be. As for me, I will do the best to love my neighbor as I do myself. I’ll leave the judging up to you. The road is indeed narrow, and that’s why 79% of white evangelicals vote for conservatives. Yes, Matthew 5:11 is true, which is why conservatives HATE liberals with a passion.

    For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” — Galatians 5:14

    It is stated over, and over, and over, and over throughout the ENTIRE Bible.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=love+neighbor&qs_version=NRSV

    I’ll take my chances by choosing love, kindness, mercy and forgiveness. Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I will be with him in the end. Of that I have no doubt.

    Like

    1. Please stop the passive-aggressiveness. Just go to YOUR site. You guys judge all day, every day, in the most hypocritical fashion possible, because you pretend that everyone else is doing the judging!

      You judge Jesus and say that the Bible can’t be right, because it wouldn’t have what you deem to be the correct number of people in Heaven.

      Then you play the pathetic race card. That’s a concession speech. Still waiting for your cheers for Mia Love, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley . . . oh, those don’t count because they left your plantation? Oh, and your beloved abortion kills blacks at a rate 3 times that of whites. That’s the ultimate racism – fully blessed by you. No, it is worse – you want more abortions via taxpayer-funding and less restrictions! That’s even more Satanic.

      We don’t hate Leftists, we hate their false teaching. Big difference!

      Love your neighbor as yourself? We do that. You? Go read your own page that you are too gutless to moderate – unless it is a Bible-believer annihilating your ridiculous false anti-Christ memes. Your page is full of hate. You blocked me completely but won’t delete a single comment of theirs. What a lying coward!

      Oh, and how about these neighbors? You obviously don’t love them. http://tinyurl.com/yzjq4lv http://www.advocatesoflife.com/graphicabortionimages.htm

      “I’ll take my chances by choosing love, kindness, mercy and forgiveness.”

      No, you aren’t choosing those at all. You don’t love your neighbors in the womb. You defend the “right” to destroy them for any reason at any time.

      You don’t love gays, you love your popularity with the world. You don’t warn them of what God says about their behavior, not to mention the physical risks they take.

      “Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I will be with him in the end. Of that I have no doubt.”

      Yeah, many will say to him, “Lord, lord . . .”

      I hope you are just saved and really, really, really confused, but you have given ZERO evidence that you worship the real Jesus. Galatians 1:8–10 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

      ZERO.

      Like

      1. Way to show your true colors. It’s like I said in the beginning. We could debate the “statements” I’ve made until the cows come home, for days and months. I have done it with people who believe as you do, hundreds of times. It’s a waste of time for both of us. You will never accept my point of view and I will never accept yours. As I said, all power in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus. There is no “other Jesus” than that. I follow the right one because there is only one. Sandlin and Currie both believe they are saved because of Jesus and they have both been baptized. That’s good enough for me. I told you. I view theology as the Disciples of Christ do.

        “For modern Disciples the one essential is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and obedience to him in baptism. There is no requirement to give assent to any other statement of belief or creed. Nor is there any ‘official’ interpretation of the Bible. Hierarchical doctrine was traditionally rejected by Disciples as human-made and divisive, and subsequently, freedom of belief and scriptural interpretation allows many Disciples to question or even deny beliefs common in doctrinal churches.

        Members and seekers are encouraged to take being disciples seriously, meaning that they are student followers of Jesus. Often the best teaching comes in the form, ‘I’ll tell you what I think, but read the Bible for yourself, and then study and pray about it. Decide in what ways God is calling you to be a follower of Jesus.’

        Modern Disciples reject the use of creeds as ‘tests of faith,’ that is, as required beliefs, necessary to be accepted as a follower of Jesus. Although Disciples respect the great creeds of the church as informative affirmations of faith, they are never seen as binding.”

        In the end I believe we see each other very much the same. I would never say you aren’t saved, just very, very confused.

        Like

      2. Way to show your true colors.

        Huh? I’ve shown my true colors all along. I’ve demolished your arguments at your site (before you deleted them) and here. I’ve exposed your flawed reasoning. I’ve shown how you haven’t backed up your views at all, you’ve just stated your “Christian” Left creed (which is ironic, since you oppose creeds). It is a moral good to “out” false teachers. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/the-importance-of-sound-doctrine/

        You pretend to be about kindness, mercy, etc. yet allow the most vile things on your “Christian” Left site. You lied and acted like you couldn’t stop them, but you sure found a way to delete my comments — and then you completely ignore that when I out you on it! You even have a post a link to this page calling me a “False Teacher Extraordinaire,” yet you come here saying we are brothers-in-Christ! You are the one who has shown his true colors, and I deeply appreciate that. Now, just like with Currie, you know you are a liar. I know you are a liar. And you know I know you are a liar.

        You reflexively went on your Ayn Rand rant until I pointed out how your guilt-by-association fallacy works on you too (sweet Ayn was a pro-abort, like you!). Your site even has a video about her! What poor thinking people you are. Rand was eerily accurate about the motives, behavior and results of Leftists. As the joke goes, Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual. But just because she diagnosed the problem doesn’t mean she had the right solution. As an atheist, she misunderstood key parts of human nature. And of course, her pro-abortion views were anti-Christian — just like your’s!

        It’s like I said in the beginning. We could debate the “statements” I’ve made until the cows come home, for days and months.

        No need to do it for months. You haven’t done it at all.

        I have done it with people who believe as you do, hundreds of times. It’s a waste of time for both of us.

        Oh, I don’t expect to change “Christian” Left leaders like you, Sandlin and Currie, though that would be nice. My goal is to protect others from wolves like you and to equip them to fight against the fakes. Big difference! So I enjoy doing this.

        You know I can demolish all your arguments, which is why you had to block me.

        As I said, all power in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus. There is no “other Jesus” than that. I follow the right one because there is only one. Sandlin and Currie both believe they are saved because of Jesus and they have both been baptized. That’s good enough for me. I told you. I view theology as the Disciples of Christ do.

        Yes, but none of you appear to follow the real Jesus. The “Jesus” of Mormonism, JWs or the “Christian” Left can’t save you because he doesn’t exist.

        Thanks again, and keep linking to me, please! If you ever grow a pair and are willing to unblock me at your site, let me know. We could have a lot of fun! But you are welcome to keep commenting here. This is Interwebs gold for me.

        Like

      3. Dude, you are ONE sick puppy, Take a look at your own twisted blog and look at the garbage YOU allow on it. You are one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever witnessed in my entire life. Seriously, my entire life, and I’m 50 years old. That’s pretty big to win that award. My admin team blocked you on my page because we don’t allow conservative trolling on our page. It’s useless to debate with conservatives, for the reasons I outlined here. I cam to your pathetic site to try to reason with you and say, “let’s just agree to disagree and move on.” But NO. You are delusional it you think you can demolish anything I say. You are a false teacher. So what? Every single one of us are sinners. We are all liars and hypocrites to some degree. You are the worst kind. You drive people away from Christ rather than attract them with the Good News. Your ways are sickening to me and I will dedicate the rest of my life to expose your kind, which is what I do every day on The Christian Left.

        Like

      4. Dude, you are ONE sick puppy, Take a look at your own twisted blog and look at the garbage YOU allow on it.

        LOL. Back with the childish name-calling. You have exposed yourself as a liar. You said we were brothers in Christ! And you lied about how you had no way to moderate the haters on your own page. You are just like Chuck. Why should I believe anything you say?

        You can’t respond to any facts and logic, so you come with name-calling — just like your fellow “Christian” Left people whose views are indistinguishable from the world’s!

        My admin team blocked you on my page because we don’t allow conservative trolling on our page.

        Translation: You don’t allow contrary opinions. Check. You just allow hate speech from the Left.

        It’s useless to debate with conservatives, for the reasons I outlined here.

        Ah, the open-mindedness of the Left! I’m glad to debate Leftists like you. You and Chuck are welcome anytime. This is Interwebs gold. I may not win you over, but I can expose your false beliefs to others and show how intellectually and biblically bankrupt the “Christian” Left views are.

        I cam to your pathetic site to try to reason with you and say, “let’s just agree to disagree and move on.”

        Uh, couldn’t you have just done that by doing NOTHING? But hey, a false teacher called my site pathetic, so I guess I’ll go have a sads now. 🙂

        But NO. You are delusional it you think you can demolish anything I say.

        No, I think I’ve pretty well documented it here!

        You are a false teacher.

        Less than 24 hours ago you said I was a brother in Christ. Did my site change since then?

        You drive people away from Christ rather than attract them with the Good News.

        I warn people of pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQX, anti-Jesus frauds like you, Chuck and Sandlin. The Holy Spirit will work in whomever He likes, whenever He likes (that’s from John 3, which is scripture, even though you Lefties think the author was a blasphemous liar). Nothing you or I do will stop that.

        Your ways are sickening to me and I will dedicate the rest of my life to expose your kind, which is what I do every day on The Christian Left.

        Too bad you are too gutless to allow contrary opinions there. You see, I know you are a wolf in sheep’s clothing and I’m glad to let you post here so I can annihilate your views.

        If you were confident in your views and really wanted to “expose” my kind, you’d allow contrary opinions on your page (in addition to the hate, bad reasoning, anti-biblical rants you encourage from the “Christian” Left). After all, if I’m so wrong you’d have an easy time pointing it out, eh? You could show the “Christian” Left how to refute the arguments of Bible-believing Christians. You are welcome to keep linking here if you like, but wouldn’t it be better to “expose” me directly on your page? I think that would be fun.

        But you know you can’t do that, so you hide in your cocoon and shield your followers.

        Meditate on that.

        Living rent-free inside the heads of fake Christians 24×7 🙂

        Like

      5. Charles,

        You say all the same lingo as real Christians do, but just like the Mormons – who also use all the same lingo and claims – it appears that you worship a Christ you have made up out of whole cloth rather than the Christ of the Bible. A made up Christ, no matter how much you appeal to him, has no saving power. I suggest you start reading the Bible as it is written rather than as you wish it was written, and turn to the real Christ for salvation.

        Like

      6. Oh, this is classic. You ask your kind, loving tolerant people if I can be un-banned and you get this. And you said I “begged” (ha!). How about just copying and pasting what I actually wrote? The bold part is my reply.

        Anne Speck Nah. There are a thousand forums he’s welcome to post in. This doesn’t have to be one of them.
        147 · 2 hours ago

        Jon J. Strine I would say yes, if it weren’t for the fact that it won’t matter one whit. You could quote verse after verse at him and you’ll still be wrong. People like that, they don’t want to debate. They want to debase. I don’t think we need that kind of negativity around here. There’s enough of it to go around everywhere else.
        141 · about an hour ago
        5 Replies · 6 minutes ago

        Helm Zinser-Watkins If I wanted to hear an asshole talk, I’d fart.
        83 · about an hour ago

        Sonia Fischer Please no. I come here to escape that.
        81 · about an hour ago

        Kevin Wegner Trolls regenerate unless you burn them or pour acid on them
        4 · about an hour ago

        Jacquelynn Bost Morris What would it accomplish, other than generate a lot of negativity and anger? I find it best to just ignore people who want to “demolish” my viewpoints. Argument never solved a problem or changed an opinion–it just polarizes people.
        41 · 2 hours ago · Edited

        The Christian Left He’s not civil.
        7 · 2 hours ago

        Brian Wendt Never wrestle with pigs. It makes the pig happy and you end up covered in mud.
        14 · about an hour ago

        Pennsyltucky Phillips You don’t have to host every crazy that wants to come here.
        12 · about an hour ago

        Brandon Creely If it will lead to an open, fact-based debate, then I’d say yes. If we are just talking about a bunch of people with their minds made up, refusing to acknowledge that there is a possibility that they may be wrong, just yelling over each other, then I fail to see the point.
        10 · about an hour ago

        Steve McKenna No thanks. I don’t see much Christian in demolition of any kind. — Yeah, other than this: 2 Corinthians 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ
        9 · about an hour ago

        Bill Krill As long as no one at all responds to him…you cannot engage fundie conservatives in intelligent dialog…just let the words be like farts in the wind…
        18 · about an hour ago

        Like

      7. Here’s more love from the tolerant, kind, Left. Don’t drown in they hypocrisy. They are so blind they don’t even see it!

        Sorry Mr. Neil Simpson. We put it up for a vote on the page. Our community has decided by an overwhelming margin not to allow your blasphemous vitriol on the page. You see Neil, we’ve heard it all before, and then some. We’ve heard it a thousand times, and it makes us ill. We pray that one day you discover the real Jesus. The loving, merciful, forgiving, Jesus. The one who broke “the rules” for the sake of mercy (Matthew 12). We don’t know the Jesus you teach of. The angry, judging, petty, vengeful Jesus. We read the gospels and we see quite the opposite. We’re moving on now Neil. We will leave you to fester in your sad little pit of hatred blog. If you ever get tired of the misery of your own false teaching and have a change of heart, join us! There are plenty of ex-fundies here!

        Charles showed that he is just like Chuck: A lying, despicable, malicious wolf in sheep’s clothing. What surprise from “Christians” who are pro-baby killing, pro-LGBTQX sexual anarchy, anti-deity of Jesus, etc.

        Like

  38. “so by “recently” you mean all of recorded history?”

    On the surface that sounds like a really telling point. Given that writing is pretty recent, I guess you could say that. I know you may believe that history is only 6,000 to 9,000 years long, but since I do not, it’s a moot point between us. From my perspective history is at least several hundreds of thousands of years and recording it is a tiny part of that. So point to you.

    Like

    1. You may not believe that history is only 6-9k years long, but that is what the Bible records (unless, of course, they meant Pluto-length years, because, according to you, a book written for the knowledge and edification of earthlings need not actually use earth-based frames of reference and times); any case for a longer existence of the universe is nowhere found in the Bible, and many things in the Bible flatly contradict such an addition.

      However, you are free not to be bound by what the Bible teaches — just don’t call yourself a Christian if you throw off Biblical teaching. Jesus is One with the Father; God (all three Persons) wrote the entire Bible; therefore everything in the Bible is what Jesus wanted to be there. It’s a pretty odd way of following Jesus, by ignoring the parts of His Word you don’t like, and twisting words to mean something entirely different from what they say.

      You are accurate when you say that the Bible records only 6-9k years of history; and since it starts with “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”, with the next chapter expounding on that phrase, showing God’s creative work day after day after day — for six days total, then resting on the seventh — we have no reason to believe that the universe is any older than that.

      Adam was created on Day Six; elsewhere, the genealogy from Adam to Noah is given, with lifespans denoted. It is obvious that Seth was Adam’s SON, not merely some male descendant (though the term in Hebrew sometimes refers not to a direct son but a grandson or great-grandson) since the context requires a direct father-son relationship. There is no good reason to believe that any generations are skipped in this chrono-genealogy; but even if it were, the dates are still there — even if Methuselah was not Lamech’s father but a grandfather or great-grandfather, he was still the stated age when Lamech was born, so you can’t really fit any more years in there, even if there were more generations (which there almost certainly weren’t).

      Like

      1. Someone needs to write a book titled “Things Not in the Bible” because that is one of them. That span of years was deduced by a bunch of early Catholic heirarchs (Cardinals, if I recall, maybe Bishops) who did it by trying to trace the begats backward and such. To do this one had to guess how long someone has lived who died over a thousand years ago. Not all of these are so clear as your examples. This is why there’s a 3,000 year margin of error.

        Plus not all the chain of begats seems to be complete, despite your account. The Babylonian Captivity messed severely with scribal work. The Babylonians killed scribes and other important Jews in order to force the survivors to become “good Babylonians”. (The Lost Tribes are the tribes they succeeded with.) They burned records. Nasty stuff like pogroms were not really invented by the Nazis, you know… it is still the “national sport” of Iraq and Syria… You “make a good Shia” (or Sunni) by killing off his parents, blowing up his mosque and destroying all the opposing records. This is not a new occupation happening only in Islam… It’s that with modern news organizations there are outsiders also making a record. Back then you didn’t have to scour the entire planet to kill everyone who knew the truth. In Babylon and Assyria you just had to kill the leadership and the scribes and maybe some passing Chinese merchant who might write home… Now it goes out by satellite instantly.

        Then you have the problem of whether “history” started at the same time life (or even just humans) started. So far as we know they did not try to find out, they just jumped to the conclusion that Creation must have been about the time Man began to write. Much of what you quote was tinkered with in the early translations in order to “strengthen the Faith” by hiding things that might cause differences of opinion. I assure you there was just as much human devious behavior then as now.

        (In case you might think I’m blasting saints, I refer to the era of the 3rd Nicean Council – run by the Emperor, not the Church – and the 17th century King James’ project. Not Biblical times. Both rulers were highly political men trying to make themselves seem like the ONLY good guy and with very impure motives.)

        Anyway… it was a much harder task than originally imagined, and they had large disagreements as to who was correct at this and that points. The odds it is accurate are entirely a matter of personal faith. My faith does not extend to a bunch of Cardinals in a room in Nicea.

        Like

    1. Procedural questions:

      #1: Why is it that when I hit “Reply” it never threads to the post I am trying to reply to? It instead requires me to go back and paste in a quote… Other blogs and such “thread” replies…

      #2: Usually when my mail from this site arrives, it quotes the opening passage and I have to wade through all the way to the bottom. Often I just delete those. I have hundreds of emails a day… this method is too discouraging.

      In my unasked-for opinion, you need to get with your provider and see if some of those features exist and can be turned on…

      Like

      1. Now, it worked perfectly this time… So I suspect it’s a setting you do have some control over. Thing is, I’ve done some of this myself and the creators of these programs tend to be woeful in their ability to make clear the instructions. They just want to sell you on how swell their program or site is, over the competition. So after they have you, the “How-Tos” tend to be hard to find. But if something works sometimes… then it exists. You may have inadvertently set up something to show everybody the opening message, even if they aren’t new any more, meaning only for new readers to see it. Most of these programs are quite sophisticated, if you can just get ALL the instructions you need. Is there a support blog for WordPress? I read other WordPress blogs and they seem to thread Ok…

        If Jesus wants you to do this I am sure He wants you to do it so it works well. He would never cut off a free exchange of this sort. He was raised Jewish and that faith is based on such dialogues. It’s their signature attribute now that other monotheistic faiths exist.

        Like

  39. As Posted on The Christian Left Page:

    “Sorry Mr. Neil Simpson. We put it up for a vote on the page. Our community has decided by an overwhelming margin not to allow your blasphemous vitriol on the page. You see Neil, we’ve heard it all before, and then some. We’ve heard it a thousand times, and it makes us ill. We pray that one day you discover the real Jesus. The loving, merciful, forgiving, Jesus. The one who broke “the rules” for the sake of mercy (Matthew 12). We don’t know the Jesus you teach of. The angry, judging, petty, vengeful Jesus. We read the gospels and we see quite the opposite. We’re moving on now Neil. We will leave you to fester in your sad little pit of hatred blog. If you ever get tired of the misery of your own false teaching and have a change of heart, join us! There are plenty of ex-fundies here!”

    Like

      1. This statement is why you will never convince some people that your soul is any better off than any other sinner’s. You dare determine another human is “God hating”, which says you’ve learned very little from all your readings of the Bible, no matter how convinced you are otherwise. I will continue to keep you at the top of my prayer list, though you’ll choose to believe you’re being prayed for by a monster, since you would describe me with the very same descriptives you threw at Charles. But you know what? I’ll carry those descriptives with honor, and use them in conversation when I’m speaking to those souls who’ve awakened enough to recognize the foul stench of living in fear, even fearing God’s own Love.

        Like

      2. Hi Melissa,

        I don’t know you well enough to compare you to Charles. He has proved to be quite the malicious liar. Hopefully you aren’t like him.

        If you don’t like the tone here then I have no idea how you stand his site.

        Like

    1. Charles,

      I know you probably think I’m being sarcastic when I say this, but I can’t thank you enough for this thread and your activities on your page. I have been completely consistent and transparent here. I never considered you a brother in Christ but I held out hope that you might be different than Sandlin and Currie. But as I’ve learned with wolves, if you keep them talking long enough they’ll out themselves. You did it here, for all to see.

      More than that, you’ve inspired me to do a few things to expose the “Christian” Left even more. Stay tuned! I have so many work, family and ministry commitments I enjoy but I’m going to squeeze a couple more small things in to help expose more people to the evils of the “Christian” Left.

      How you sleep at night posing as a Christian after all you’ve done here and on your page is beyond me. But I’m used to it. Jesus warned us of false teachers, and as usual, He was right!

      My prayer for you is the same as it is for Chuck, Mark and your minions: That when you read the Bible with your usual goal of perverting it for your “god,” the real God will take the scales off your eyes and you will see the truth. You’ll stop making the text say what you want it to and you’ll meet God on his terms.

      Like

    2. Repent and believe, Charles. Repent and believe. Receive grace, mercy, & forgiveness for your sins. Leave that putrid nest of Satan-loving hatred known as the Christian Left. Join, worship & serve with a solid, Christ-centered church. And never look back. Please do it soon.

      Like

    3. Oh, and it was very, very surprising that they didn’t overwhelming want me unblocked. I mean, you couldn’t have asked it in a more favorable way. You basically said, “Do you fake Christians want a real Christian to come explain why you are completely and thoroughly wrong on Jesus, the Bible, human sexuality, abortion, salvation, Hell, and more — and that you are hypocrites as well?” /sarcasm

      Stay classy!

      Like

  40. This. Is. Classic. My new buddies at the “Christian” Left  are sad that I’ve stated that they deny the divinity of Christ, and they are aggressively denying that they are deniers.

    Some of our fundie critics like to accuse us of denying the divinity of Christ. We can’t figure out if they’re purposely lying or just misled. We do no such thing. No one understands the Trinity. No one. We do not deny the divinity of Christ. In the past we’ve posted articles that attempt to analyze which aspects of Jesus were true man and which aspects were true God. Apparently the fundies freaked out about that. That’s generally what happens when they are forced to think outside their template.

    Hmmmm . . . maybe they should pay attention to what Mark Sandlin, one of their leaders, says in his posts:

    No Trinity for me, please

    Jesus is not my God

    Subtle, eh?  You’ll get the same message from false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie.

    Now how could we possibly get the idea that the “Christian” Left denies the divinity of Christ and the Trinity just because they post articles saying, “Jesus is not my God” and “No trinity for me, please” and more?

    Like I said, self-parody. No wonder they won’t let Christians comment on their page!

    Like

  41. Oh noes! The https://www.facebook.com/TheChristianLeft needs money, badly — otherwise they’ll have to scale back! Apparently three people plus a dedicated admin team are required to share bits from other Lefty pages, promote abortion and the LGBTQX agenda and to say mean things about Republicans. Oh, and I suppose banning anyone with a different opinion takes a little time. And, of course, begging for money.

    I’m one guy, and in just a few hours I set up this page to expose them — https://www.facebook.com/exposetheleft — AND post-dated 50+ items to publish later. Hey, if the “Christian” Left needs help, I’ll take over their moderation. I’m free, and I could tidy up their bad theology!

    Wait a minute — are they saying they haven’t been paying all those people “living wages” all this time?!

    “We’re just going to be honest with you. The bulk of the effort behind The Christian Left has been carried out by three people over the last 5 years. We have a dedicated admin team as well. We’ve devoted most of our free time to this endeavor for 5 years, thousands of hours. At this point every single one of us is suffering financially. Sooner than later we’re going to have to put this on the back burner and devote much more of our time to income for our families. We’ll never drop doing this forever but it would be much more scaled back. It would be one of those things we do when we can get to it. Sorry to sound like a bummer but it’s just the reality of the situation. If you’d like to help us avoid this situation there’s a donate button on the left column of our Facebook page a few clicks down.”

    Like

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